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> The US had an obligation not to expand NATO to Ukraine, but hey, here we are. Both Gorbachev (the leader of the USSR at the time) and Jasow (higest military

> The US had an obligation not to expand NATO to Ukraine, but hey, here we are. Both Gorbachev (the leader of the USSR at the time) and Jasow (higest military leader of the USSR at the time) both say this was never promised to them [1]. And also; Do you really think they would have just let it out the agreement if this was really promised to them? The USSR just forgot to ask to put it on paper? > And even if Ukraine did kick Russia out, then what? Russia can just invade again a year later. Is this just an endless war? So what is the difference exactly with a "peace deal" now? Russia did exactly the same thing with Crimea. They invaded, signed a cease fire and then broke it. Whats going to be different this time? > Seems like the better approach is for Ukraine to get the best deal with Russia they can. They had a deal in 2014 after Russia invaded Crimea. And Russia chose to break it. That's besides all the deals (such as the Budapest Memorandum) Russia decided to break when they invaded Crimea in the first place. > Is the West going to pay for an endless war? Purely from a military perspective, the west is getting a pretty sweet deal with Russia putting it's army in the wood-chipper. [1] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JoZoR8BUfgk https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JoZoR8BUfgk

refurb 2y ago
“Foreign Minister Lavrov and other senior officials have reiterated strong opposition, stressing that Russia would view further eastward expansion as a potential military threat.” 22 Jan 2008 https://wikileaks.org/plusd/cables/08MOSCOW265_a.html https://wikileaks.org/plusd/cables/08MOSCOW265_a.html Despite Russia sharing its redlines with the West in 2008 NATO continued to expand its sphere of influence into Ukraine including backing the coup in 2014. So yeah, it’s unsurprising that Russia escalated each step of the way as well. I’m not arguing Russia is right, I’m arguing a war was an obvious outcome. Russia has already paid a price in the war and clearly it seeks some sort of solution.

refurb 2y ago

“Foreign Minister Lavrov and other senior officials have reiterated strong opposition, stressing that Russia would view further eastward expansion as a potential military threat.” 22 Jan 2008 https://wikileaks.org/plusd/cables/08MOSCOW265_a.html https://wikileaks.org/plusd/cables/08MOSCOW265_a.html Despite Russia sharing its redlines with the West in 2008 NATO continued to expand its sphere of influence into Ukraine including backing the coup in 2014. So yeah, it’s unsurprising that Russia escalated each step of the way as well. I’m not arguing Russia is right, I’m arguing a war was an obvious outcome. Russia has already paid a price in the war and clearly it seeks some sort of solution.