4 ms·

Indeed. That has to be a first from a US government agency.

by spiffistan 14y ago

zitterbewegung 14y ago
I think its great though that the NSA is acknowledging the resource that DEFCON is though.
- mcantelon 14y ago
  Kind of a no-brainer, when you're trying to circumvent your population's security and break its encryption, to attempt to buy off people with related skills.
maayank 14y ago
From what I learned and searched for (sorry, no references), in general the important thing for a security background check for government agencies is not that you have shady business in your past - but that you're willing to be totally transparent to your (governmental) employer. Was in the past a heavy consumer of weed/was part of a cult/always attending protests against federal government policies? No problem, just tell us that on the forms/interview BEFORE we find it out for ourselves (and they will find it, because you'll give them permission to). Transparency and trust is the most important thing here, not your history (in the non-extreme cases). So willing applicants, don't let your history prevent you from trying. EDIT: to clarify, the main reason it's being done is because one of the main actual real-life-no-movies-plot threat for such agencies is that someone will find something in your past they don't know about and will blackmail you for confidential information. It's ALL in their interest not to disclose your past shady activities as that will deter recruits from being frank with them, supplying blackmail potential to adversaries. Judge on your own, but if you were my friend I would advice you not to be afraid to fully comply with the screenings as you'll just do harm to you and your country.
- utnick 14y ago
  Doesn't this approach seem kind of backwards though? For example, weed. If they want to prevent enemies from blackmailing their employees for past weed use. They should come out and say we don't care how much weed you smoke, we're not going to drug test you now or ever, we just don't care what you do in your free time. The fact that they polygraph & question you to find the exact # of times you have done drugs in the past opens the door to blackmail situations. Polygraphs are not perfect, I'm sure some people that work for the NSA claimed no drug use on the application when that was not the case or claimed to have done it a handful of times when they really did it a lot more. Now an enemy could blackmail those people because they would be afraid of losing their jobs if the truth came out.
  - maayank 14y ago
    I don't know the specifics about the NSA (or about any other agency), but the whole "don't care much about past, caring about trust and transparency" is pretty standard security model in western governmental agencies. Notice that CURRENT illegal activities can be a source of blackmail - if I'd work for the NSA and run over someone with my car I wouldn't expect a three letter agency to come and make the charges disappear (and that's a good thing of course, we don't want an above-the-law military class). As I said, I don't know the specifics of the NSA (maybe they do or do not care about future light drug use) but I would expect them not wanting you to continue any illegal activities, to a reasonable degree (continue stealing the office toilet paper if it gives you kicks). Unless you're some sort of a world-level genius they would probably also shy away from evident extreme sociopathic behavior. From a reasonable human resources angle, not just security. Most of us wouldn't want to work with someone who released a worm that specifically targets thesis drafts for example. ANOTHER EDIT: I really think the #1 concern for applicable defcon recruits is "computer crimes", not drug use. Found/tested exploits? Use bittorrent? Cracked WinRAR (and hopefully something else that is more than simply changing a je to jne)? don't be afraid to send a CV and be honest. That is all.
  - Daniel_Newby 14y ago
    > They should come out and say we don't care how much weed you smoke, we're not going to drug test you now or ever, we just don't care what you do in your free time. The threat is that a foreign nation will take over a DEA field office and blackmail you. "We can overlook the pot this time if you cooperate and wear this wire. Don't cooperate and we'll do an asset forfeiture on your house and report your kids to CPS for being homeless." In a few months you'll be doing dead drops for a Chinese handler and thinking you are doing the right thing for family and country. It is not about drugs but the abject corruption of the War on Drugs. Polygraph interviews are not anout ferreting out all secrets, they are about finding how hard it is to get secrets out of you.
- briandear 14y ago
  That's exactly correct. I'll been through the Single Scope process and it was brutal. Remembering what I had for breakfast yesterday is hard enough let alone remembering a coworker from 10 years ago. My clearance took over a year, of course I lived in various East Asian countries for 6 of the past 10 years, so it made it far more interesting. Discovery of a "Potential to coercion" is the main objective of a poly. If it's all on the table, there'd not much that can be used against you.
- deleted 14y ago
  [deleted]

Indeed. That has to be a first from a US government agency.

zitterbewegung 14y ago

I think its great though that the NSA is acknowledging the resource that DEFCON is though.

mcantelon 14y ago
Kind of a no-brainer, when you're trying to circumvent your population's security and break its encryption, to attempt to buy off people with related skills.

maayank 14y ago

From what I learned and searched for (sorry, no references), in general the important thing for a security background check for government agencies is not that you have shady business in your past - but that you're willing to be totally transparent to your (governmental) employer. Was in the past a heavy consumer of weed/was part of a cult/always attending protests against federal government policies? No problem, just tell us that on the forms/interview BEFORE we find it out for ourselves (and they will find it, because you'll give them permission to). Transparency and trust is the most important thing here, not your history (in the non-extreme cases). So willing applicants, don't let your history prevent you from trying. EDIT: to clarify, the main reason it's being done is because one of the main actual real-life-no-movies-plot threat for such agencies is that someone will find something in your past they don't know about and will blackmail you for confidential information. It's ALL in their interest not to disclose your past shady activities as that will deter recruits from being frank with them, supplying blackmail potential to adversaries. Judge on your own, but if you were my friend I would advice you not to be afraid to fully comply with the screenings as you'll just do harm to you and your country.

utnick 14y ago
Doesn't this approach seem kind of backwards though? For example, weed. If they want to prevent enemies from blackmailing their employees for past weed use. They should come out and say we don't care how much weed you smoke, we're not going to drug test you now or ever, we just don't care what you do in your free time. The fact that they polygraph & question you to find the exact # of times you have done drugs in the past opens the door to blackmail situations. Polygraphs are not perfect, I'm sure some people that work for the NSA claimed no drug use on the application when that was not the case or claimed to have done it a handful of times when they really did it a lot more. Now an enemy could blackmail those people because they would be afraid of losing their jobs if the truth came out.
- maayank 14y ago
  I don't know the specifics about the NSA (or about any other agency), but the whole "don't care much about past, caring about trust and transparency" is pretty standard security model in western governmental agencies. Notice that CURRENT illegal activities can be a source of blackmail - if I'd work for the NSA and run over someone with my car I wouldn't expect a three letter agency to come and make the charges disappear (and that's a good thing of course, we don't want an above-the-law military class). As I said, I don't know the specifics of the NSA (maybe they do or do not care about future light drug use) but I would expect them not wanting you to continue any illegal activities, to a reasonable degree (continue stealing the office toilet paper if it gives you kicks). Unless you're some sort of a world-level genius they would probably also shy away from evident extreme sociopathic behavior. From a reasonable human resources angle, not just security. Most of us wouldn't want to work with someone who released a worm that specifically targets thesis drafts for example. ANOTHER EDIT: I really think the #1 concern for applicable defcon recruits is "computer crimes", not drug use. Found/tested exploits? Use bittorrent? Cracked WinRAR (and hopefully something else that is more than simply changing a je to jne)? don't be afraid to send a CV and be honest. That is all.
- Daniel_Newby 14y ago
  > They should come out and say we don't care how much weed you smoke, we're not going to drug test you now or ever, we just don't care what you do in your free time. The threat is that a foreign nation will take over a DEA field office and blackmail you. "We can overlook the pot this time if you cooperate and wear this wire. Don't cooperate and we'll do an asset forfeiture on your house and report your kids to CPS for being homeless." In a few months you'll be doing dead drops for a Chinese handler and thinking you are doing the right thing for family and country. It is not about drugs but the abject corruption of the War on Drugs. Polygraph interviews are not anout ferreting out all secrets, they are about finding how hard it is to get secrets out of you.
briandear 14y ago
That's exactly correct. I'll been through the Single Scope process and it was brutal. Remembering what I had for breakfast yesterday is hard enough let alone remembering a coworker from 10 years ago. My clearance took over a year, of course I lived in various East Asian countries for 6 of the past 10 years, so it made it far more interesting. Discovery of a "Potential to coercion" is the main objective of a poly. If it's all on the table, there'd not much that can be used against you.
deleted 14y ago
[deleted]