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What functional, diplomatic purpose exists for calling him a "bozo"? What problems does this solve? Which tensions does this ease? Which conflicts does this sto

What functional, diplomatic purpose exists for calling him a "bozo"? What problems does this solve? Which tensions does this ease? Which conflicts does this stop? What sensitive government data does this un-leak? Which broken laws does this adjudicate? What usurped power is being brought back under control with this? Or is it just contributing to a one-way ratchet that only ever increases partisan polarization and hostility for no reason at all, instead of seeking to de-escalate and solve problems? P.S. this goes for Trump/Musk/DOGE supporters too. Name calling and vindictive personal attacks aren't decreasing the deficit, they're not paying off the debt, they're not reducing weaponization of government against conservatives, they're doing nothing to address border and immigration concerns, and they aren't reducing crime. So I ask you, too, what problems are being solved with vindictive, spiteful namecalling?

marxisttemp 2y ago
How dare we call the vindictive, spiteful, name calling president currently destroying our country names! > weaponization of government against conservatives The government is clearly being weaponized against anyone who has ever opposed Trump in any way. You are in a reality tunnel.
- InTheArena 2y ago
  The OP is not. He’s calling someone working on a project, posting his code to GitHub names. The correct response in a democratic society to people attacking political enemies as enemies of the state, spreading untruths, attacking the rule of law, and acting like assholes is _to not do these these things_.
  - deleted 2y ago
    [deleted]
  - marxisttemp 2y ago
    Okay
  - KerrAvon 2y ago
    I’m really baffled by this take. How are you not understanding the basic fact that these are criminals actively performing a coup to destroy the “democratic society”, not political opponents?
    - marxisttemp 2y ago
      We must be polite to them as they spit in our faces UwU
      - anonym29 2y ago
        Actions the GOP is allowing right now have real downsides that inflict real harms on real victims. I am frustrated at them and I wish they would stop, but I recognize that insulting them and calling them names is only going to encourage them to be even less charitable in return. Actions the left has allowed during past progressive administrations had real downsides that inflict real harms on real victims. I am frustrated at them and I wish they never would've done those things, but I recognize that insulting them and calling them names is only going to encourage them to be even less charitable in return. It's not about being nice, it's about not deliberately and intentionally making things worse by stoking polarization for no reason other than to dehumanize and ostracize the other side. This isn't a complicated idea, it's like mutually assured destruction: we're all better off when we all step back for a second from being pissed off and afraid... slow down... think... recognize that we all lose if we all stay on the offensive, so let's dial things down and be more diplomatic instead of intentionally continuing to make tensions and polarization worse. Both sides have to recognize that both sides do it and both sides are better off if neither does it. We are not the foolish prisoners in the prisoner's dilemma who are unable to communicate and thus unable to collectively work together to find win-win and avoid lose-lose. But we have to actually humanize and respect eachother in order to facilitate that dialogue, and that starts with not dehumanizing eachother.
        marxisttemp 2y ago
        We haven’t had a left or progressive administration in a very long time. Please lay out the harms you perceive though. Anyways I have no sympathy for fascists and I am a Marxist so we probably won’t see eye to eye. Fascists aren’t people. Going through your past posts it seems you may be referring to warrantless wiretapping, which I’ve been railing about for ages. Of course the groundwork was laid by Bush’s PATRIOT act, but absolutely the DNC is extremely corrupt and many democrat leaders have done awful things. I’m not a democrat or a neoliberal and the DNC is very far from a left wing or progressive party. But none of that changes the fact that we’re currently in the midst of a fascist coup, and your whataboutism comes across as fascist apologia. You seem to make the mistake I see a lot of online rational tech people make, which is to assume that the DNC represents leftism, and to then associate all the evils of the DNC with “the left”. Read some actual left-wing theory like Kropotkin dude. The DNC is a deeply compromised center-right neoliberal party, as anyone on the actual left will be quick to tell you.
- Den_VR 2y ago
  > Holding onto anger is like grasping a hot coal with the intent of throwing it at someone else; you are the one who gets burned. Name calling isn’t going to do anything, and lowering yourself by it is, at best, self-harming.
- anonym29 2y ago
  I openly criticize the president for doing this as well. Two wrongs don't make a right. It's not helpful or productive when the president does it, and it's not helpful or productive when anyone else does it. It just increases polarization which makes us all feel more uncomfortable and less safe. I wish we could all treat eachother with respect and decency, and I really do mean this in the most bipartisan sense possible. Both sides do it and we'd all be better off if both sides stopped.
JumpCrisscross 2y ago
> Name calling and vindictive personal attacks aren't decreasing the deficit The GOP budget blows out our deficit by an additional $2 trillion over the next ten years. This government doesn’t actually care about the deficit. DOGE is some combination of a loyalty purge, giving Musk keep-busy work, a distraction from Trump’s tax increases & proposed deficit spending and propaganda. > what problems are being solved with vindictive, spiteful namecalling? Piss people off. Particularly in the centre. The far right has been ignoring norms and now the law. We need the centre enraged enough to break at least norms and conventions to go after these folks. I’m personally interested in the state laws the DOGE bros may be breaking.
kevinventullo 2y ago
What makes you think that problems will be solved by de-escalation?
- anonym29 2y ago
  I think the path to solving problems doesn't start out by deliberately and intentionally trying to derail what otherwise has the potential to be a mutually respectful dialogue. There's no guarantee a mutually respectful dialogue solves the problem, but it sure doesn't hurt to try that instead of starting out with dehumanizing the other party in a social conflict as the opening move.
  - kevinventullo 2y ago
    It may hurt if the only way to solve problems is to take away power from bad actors. In a democracy, one can only do that by winning voters. In 2025, it turns out that voters respond positively to strongmen who do indeed begin their conversations by derailing, dehumanizing, and attacking their opponents. So, if you want to win in the court of public opinion, maybe go for the throat in Round 1. Sadly, respectful dialogue is not en vogue.
    - anonym29 2y ago
      You seem to be of the opinion that Trump won the election because of his mannerisms and character, as opposed to the fact that the only alternative was someone that not a single person voted for in a Dem primary election for the 2024 general election. Aren't we supposed to be allowed to vote in a democracy?
kweingar 2y ago
On one hand, you have a a group that is working very quickly to make irreversible changes (likely in violation of many laws) before the judiciary catches up and enjoins them. On the other hand you have an internet user calling them a bozo. De-escalating the conflict and lowering the temperature of discourse, as you suggest, massively favors the group trying to ram through these changes. If we take a deep breath and calmly work it out, it will already be over and nothing can be done. Elected officials take notice of these urgent issues when there is significant public outcry. Now I'm not saying that one person calling them bozos meaningfully moves the needle, but as a principle if a regular person wants to do their best to stop what is happening, they must use strong language.
- anonym29 2y ago
  Why can't you use strong language to elucidate the very real risk without degrading and insulting other people in the process?

marxisttemp 2y ago

How dare we call the vindictive, spiteful, name calling president currently destroying our country names! > weaponization of government against conservatives The government is clearly being weaponized against anyone who has ever opposed Trump in any way. You are in a reality tunnel.

InTheArena 2y ago
The OP is not. He’s calling someone working on a project, posting his code to GitHub names. The correct response in a democratic society to people attacking political enemies as enemies of the state, spreading untruths, attacking the rule of law, and acting like assholes is _to not do these these things_.
- deleted 2y ago
  [deleted]
- marxisttemp 2y ago
  Okay
- KerrAvon 2y ago
  I’m really baffled by this take. How are you not understanding the basic fact that these are criminals actively performing a coup to destroy the “democratic society”, not political opponents?
  - marxisttemp 2y ago
    We must be polite to them as they spit in our faces UwU
    - anonym29 2y ago
      Actions the GOP is allowing right now have real downsides that inflict real harms on real victims. I am frustrated at them and I wish they would stop, but I recognize that insulting them and calling them names is only going to encourage them to be even less charitable in return. Actions the left has allowed during past progressive administrations had real downsides that inflict real harms on real victims. I am frustrated at them and I wish they never would've done those things, but I recognize that insulting them and calling them names is only going to encourage them to be even less charitable in return. It's not about being nice, it's about not deliberately and intentionally making things worse by stoking polarization for no reason other than to dehumanize and ostracize the other side. This isn't a complicated idea, it's like mutually assured destruction: we're all better off when we all step back for a second from being pissed off and afraid... slow down... think... recognize that we all lose if we all stay on the offensive, so let's dial things down and be more diplomatic instead of intentionally continuing to make tensions and polarization worse. Both sides have to recognize that both sides do it and both sides are better off if neither does it. We are not the foolish prisoners in the prisoner's dilemma who are unable to communicate and thus unable to collectively work together to find win-win and avoid lose-lose. But we have to actually humanize and respect eachother in order to facilitate that dialogue, and that starts with not dehumanizing eachother.
      - marxisttemp 2y ago
        We haven’t had a left or progressive administration in a very long time. Please lay out the harms you perceive though. Anyways I have no sympathy for fascists and I am a Marxist so we probably won’t see eye to eye. Fascists aren’t people. Going through your past posts it seems you may be referring to warrantless wiretapping, which I’ve been railing about for ages. Of course the groundwork was laid by Bush’s PATRIOT act, but absolutely the DNC is extremely corrupt and many democrat leaders have done awful things. I’m not a democrat or a neoliberal and the DNC is very far from a left wing or progressive party. But none of that changes the fact that we’re currently in the midst of a fascist coup, and your whataboutism comes across as fascist apologia. You seem to make the mistake I see a lot of online rational tech people make, which is to assume that the DNC represents leftism, and to then associate all the evils of the DNC with “the left”. Read some actual left-wing theory like Kropotkin dude. The DNC is a deeply compromised center-right neoliberal party, as anyone on the actual left will be quick to tell you.
Den_VR 2y ago
> Holding onto anger is like grasping a hot coal with the intent of throwing it at someone else; you are the one who gets burned. Name calling isn’t going to do anything, and lowering yourself by it is, at best, self-harming.
anonym29 2y ago
I openly criticize the president for doing this as well. Two wrongs don't make a right. It's not helpful or productive when the president does it, and it's not helpful or productive when anyone else does it. It just increases polarization which makes us all feel more uncomfortable and less safe. I wish we could all treat eachother with respect and decency, and I really do mean this in the most bipartisan sense possible. Both sides do it and we'd all be better off if both sides stopped.

JumpCrisscross 2y ago

> Name calling and vindictive personal attacks aren't decreasing the deficit The GOP budget blows out our deficit by an additional $2 trillion over the next ten years. This government doesn’t actually care about the deficit. DOGE is some combination of a loyalty purge, giving Musk keep-busy work, a distraction from Trump’s tax increases & proposed deficit spending and propaganda. > what problems are being solved with vindictive, spiteful namecalling? Piss people off. Particularly in the centre. The far right has been ignoring norms and now the law. We need the centre enraged enough to break at least norms and conventions to go after these folks. I’m personally interested in the state laws the DOGE bros may be breaking.

kevinventullo 2y ago

What makes you think that problems will be solved by de-escalation?

anonym29 2y ago
I think the path to solving problems doesn't start out by deliberately and intentionally trying to derail what otherwise has the potential to be a mutually respectful dialogue. There's no guarantee a mutually respectful dialogue solves the problem, but it sure doesn't hurt to try that instead of starting out with dehumanizing the other party in a social conflict as the opening move.
- kevinventullo 2y ago
  It may hurt if the only way to solve problems is to take away power from bad actors. In a democracy, one can only do that by winning voters. In 2025, it turns out that voters respond positively to strongmen who do indeed begin their conversations by derailing, dehumanizing, and attacking their opponents. So, if you want to win in the court of public opinion, maybe go for the throat in Round 1. Sadly, respectful dialogue is not en vogue.
  - anonym29 2y ago
    You seem to be of the opinion that Trump won the election because of his mannerisms and character, as opposed to the fact that the only alternative was someone that not a single person voted for in a Dem primary election for the 2024 general election. Aren't we supposed to be allowed to vote in a democracy?

kweingar 2y ago

On one hand, you have a a group that is working very quickly to make irreversible changes (likely in violation of many laws) before the judiciary catches up and enjoins them. On the other hand you have an internet user calling them a bozo. De-escalating the conflict and lowering the temperature of discourse, as you suggest, massively favors the group trying to ram through these changes. If we take a deep breath and calmly work it out, it will already be over and nothing can be done. Elected officials take notice of these urgent issues when there is significant public outcry. Now I'm not saying that one person calling them bozos meaningfully moves the needle, but as a principle if a regular person wants to do their best to stop what is happening, they must use strong language.

anonym29 2y ago
Why can't you use strong language to elucidate the very real risk without degrading and insulting other people in the process?