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So will Intel need to return some of the 7.9 billion in federal grants as a result of this delay? It looks like 1.5 billion of that was already awarded as recen

So will Intel need to return some of the 7.9 billion in federal grants as a result of this delay? It looks like 1.5 billion of that was already awarded as recently as last November. https://www.industryweek.com/semiconductors/article/55246295/intel-commerce-department-finalize-79-billion-chip-making-grant https://www.industryweek.com/semiconductors/article/55246295... https://www.news5cleveland.com/news/politics/ohio-politics/ohios-intel-plant-moving-forward-with-long-awaited-chips-act-funding https://www.news5cleveland.com/news/politics/ohio-politics/o...

Tostino 2y ago
Trump made claims he wants to cancel the chips act. I have a feeling that has something to do with the delay.
- okonomiyaki3000 2y ago
  So they think they can wait till 2030 when a different guy will be in the White House? They better think again.
  - micromacrofoot 2y ago
    or they hope it's a bad look for "america first" and the delay prevents it from being cancelled
  - klysm 2y ago
    They can make a bet on it, same way Apple is making “investments” with continent timing.
  - numpad0 2y ago
    I think they think, it, strategic high tech investment in the US, is not worth doing. At least until 2030s.
- imgabe 2y ago
  Because this is what happens. You try to bribe companies and they just take the money and say “oh, yeah fuck off”. Just like all the telecom companies took billions of dollars to build high speed internet and did jack shit. Instead impose tariffs and make building in the US mandatory.
  - soramimo 2y ago
    It worked for the TSMC plant.
    - iszomer 2y ago
      I thought it was contingent on Apple being one of their first TSMC-Arizona customers. - https://appleinsider.com/articles/22/12/01/apple-will-take-one-third-of-tsmc-chips-made-in-arizona https://appleinsider.com/articles/22/12/01/apple-will-take-o... - https://www.extremetech.com/computing/340975-tsmc-reportedly-bringing-3nm-production-to-arizona-to-apples-benefit https://www.extremetech.com/computing/340975-tsmc-reportedly...
      - iszomer 2y ago
        Sidenote as my edit timed out: here was Morris Chang giving his opinion on why Intel "sucks". - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dh6O9WJrCtE https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dh6O9WJrCtE
    - soramimo 2y ago
      In fact, TSMC itself (never mind the Arizona plant) is the result of Taiwan's smart Industrial policy (see https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/TSMC#History https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/TSMC#History).
  - therealdrag0 2y ago
    Hasn’t US internet gotten way better in the last 20 years?
  - surgical_fire 2y ago
    > Instead impose tariffs and make building in the US mandatory. I am always amazed at how people that repeat this bullshit seemingly have no idea how trade works, but are always very confident in their sheer ignorance.
onlyrealcuzzo 2y ago
How are they going to return that money when they lost ~$19B last year and paid out ~$2B in dividends?
- JonChesterfield 2y ago
  They get to borrow it. Or they're insolvent, which seems plausible. Making heavy losses will do that eventually.
pclmulqdq 2y ago
Is SpaceX going to return the billions for the Artemis contract from missing their milestones? This is generally what happens with corporate welfare - the people getting the handout win contracts by over-promising the most and then under-deliver.
- yapyap 2y ago
  SpaceX’s owner has a hand up the proverbial puppet running the United States of America right now, intel doesn’t.
- klysm 2y ago
  Turns out you don’t actually have to hit milestones on grants. The unfortunate reality is grants are typically unrealistic in the same way VC backed startups vastly overestimate their growth curve. In order to win the grant, you’re competing against other ideas. It’s easy to win grants with ideas that aren’t feasible because they sound better than ideas that are actually feasible. It enables incredible amounts of grift once you understand how to exploit the dynamics. Look up SBIR mills
  - pclmulqdq 2y ago
    I had the displeasure of submitting a few honest SBIRs at one point in time. Needless to say, they were rejected for not being ambitious enough. It is actually so bad that there is an inverse relationship between your ability to get an SBIR and your ability to produce a commercial product - startups who try and fail are statistically more likely to succeed in the market than startups who get an SBIR (even with the benefit of the money).
    - klysm 2y ago
      I’ve had the displeasure of working for companies that did get SBIRs and firmly believe you are correct that there is an inverse relationship on producing products. The machine knows how to get grants, and it does not care about delivering anything. Do you have any references on this topic I can look into further? I find it difficult to articulate that particular behavior to management
bryanlarsen 2y ago
Why would they need to return money they haven't yet received? As you noted, they've only received 1.5 billion so far, not 7.9 billion. The money is milestone based, so the rest of the money will be delayed appropriately.

Tostino 2y ago

Trump made claims he wants to cancel the chips act. I have a feeling that has something to do with the delay.

okonomiyaki3000 2y ago
So they think they can wait till 2030 when a different guy will be in the White House? They better think again.
- micromacrofoot 2y ago
  or they hope it's a bad look for "america first" and the delay prevents it from being cancelled
- klysm 2y ago
  They can make a bet on it, same way Apple is making “investments” with continent timing.
- numpad0 2y ago
  I think they think, it, strategic high tech investment in the US, is not worth doing. At least until 2030s.
imgabe 2y ago
Because this is what happens. You try to bribe companies and they just take the money and say “oh, yeah fuck off”. Just like all the telecom companies took billions of dollars to build high speed internet and did jack shit. Instead impose tariffs and make building in the US mandatory.
- soramimo 2y ago
  It worked for the TSMC plant.
  - iszomer 2y ago
    I thought it was contingent on Apple being one of their first TSMC-Arizona customers. - https://appleinsider.com/articles/22/12/01/apple-will-take-one-third-of-tsmc-chips-made-in-arizona https://appleinsider.com/articles/22/12/01/apple-will-take-o... - https://www.extremetech.com/computing/340975-tsmc-reportedly-bringing-3nm-production-to-arizona-to-apples-benefit https://www.extremetech.com/computing/340975-tsmc-reportedly...
    - iszomer 2y ago
      Sidenote as my edit timed out: here was Morris Chang giving his opinion on why Intel "sucks". - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dh6O9WJrCtE https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dh6O9WJrCtE
  - soramimo 2y ago
    In fact, TSMC itself (never mind the Arizona plant) is the result of Taiwan's smart Industrial policy (see https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/TSMC#History https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/TSMC#History).
- therealdrag0 2y ago
  Hasn’t US internet gotten way better in the last 20 years?
- surgical_fire 2y ago
  > Instead impose tariffs and make building in the US mandatory. I am always amazed at how people that repeat this bullshit seemingly have no idea how trade works, but are always very confident in their sheer ignorance.

onlyrealcuzzo 2y ago

How are they going to return that money when they lost ~$19B last year and paid out ~$2B in dividends?

JonChesterfield 2y ago
They get to borrow it. Or they're insolvent, which seems plausible. Making heavy losses will do that eventually.

pclmulqdq 2y ago

Is SpaceX going to return the billions for the Artemis contract from missing their milestones? This is generally what happens with corporate welfare - the people getting the handout win contracts by over-promising the most and then under-deliver.

yapyap 2y ago
SpaceX’s owner has a hand up the proverbial puppet running the United States of America right now, intel doesn’t.
klysm 2y ago
Turns out you don’t actually have to hit milestones on grants. The unfortunate reality is grants are typically unrealistic in the same way VC backed startups vastly overestimate their growth curve. In order to win the grant, you’re competing against other ideas. It’s easy to win grants with ideas that aren’t feasible because they sound better than ideas that are actually feasible. It enables incredible amounts of grift once you understand how to exploit the dynamics. Look up SBIR mills
- pclmulqdq 2y ago
  I had the displeasure of submitting a few honest SBIRs at one point in time. Needless to say, they were rejected for not being ambitious enough. It is actually so bad that there is an inverse relationship between your ability to get an SBIR and your ability to produce a commercial product - startups who try and fail are statistically more likely to succeed in the market than startups who get an SBIR (even with the benefit of the money).
  - klysm 2y ago
    I’ve had the displeasure of working for companies that did get SBIRs and firmly believe you are correct that there is an inverse relationship on producing products. The machine knows how to get grants, and it does not care about delivering anything. Do you have any references on this topic I can look into further? I find it difficult to articulate that particular behavior to management

bryanlarsen 2y ago

Why would they need to return money they haven't yet received? As you noted, they've only received 1.5 billion so far, not 7.9 billion. The money is milestone based, so the rest of the money will be delayed appropriately.