4 ms·

Because he didn't get what he wanted, which is money and security guarantees. Zelensky and his team wanted this minerals deal to happen because they saw it as

Because he didn't get what he wanted, which is money and security guarantees. Zelensky and his team wanted this minerals deal to happen because they saw it as a step towards getting Americans on their frontier, which would act as a shield against Russia. He even wanted to come back to the White House after the fiasco. Trump says no.

Rapzid 2y ago
That was something everyone needed to see IMHO. The problem isn't going away, and pretty much all of Europe(all western liberal democracies really) have come out in support since that meeting. They may get what they need yet.
- cynicalpeace 2y ago
  Yeah, we don't know yet, but if Europe steps up, USA will be happy, Trump will be happy, Ukraine will be happy too. But Europe would never step up if Trump didn't play hardball. The issue is- who from Europe will step up? All the European governments are overwhelmingly bureaucratic and boring. No leader amongst them.
trymas 2y ago
I’d say money and security guarantees were never on the table. My speculation is this - Trump in his head thought he could steam roll “peace in 24h” kind of thing with no pushback like he can do domestically. He went (behind Ukraine’s back) to talk with ruzzians - they gave a hint that it’s either total Ukraine’s capitulation or they are not interested. Trump then tried to extort Zelenski into signing capitulation wrapped into “minerals deal”. I strongly believe Zelenski was hoping to find common ground in the white house, but trump did not give in and understandably, neither Zelenski wanted to stick to original plan as he said it multiple times in a week before. Then Trump felt fire under his feet - mister “art if the deal” couldn’t strong arm Ukraine into capitulation. How he will look against MAGA? He needs to show he’s “the man”. Bully the man standing up to the modern Mordor, like a bunch of 13 year olds after school. .. but “it’s great TV”. EDIT: btw trump could’ve used same leverage against ruzzia. I’d argue ruzzia is not in better spot than Ukraine. Blockade ruzzian shadow fleets, set fire to their war chest, whatever. But trump instead chose to align himself with despotic dictators instead of alies. Trump is really scared of Putin (see Helsinki meeting of 2018), but has personal vendetta against Zelenski for not bending the knee for Biden investigation.
- cynicalpeace 2y ago
  > I strongly believe Zelenski was hoping to find common ground in the white house, but trump did not give in and understandably, neither Zelenski wanted to stick to original plan as he said it multiple times in a week before. This is simply not true. Zelensky and his cabinet rewrote the initial minerals deal (which was not favorable to them) and wanted it. Zelensky even wanted to come back to the White House to sign it.

Rapzid 2y ago

That was something everyone needed to see IMHO. The problem isn't going away, and pretty much all of Europe(all western liberal democracies really) have come out in support since that meeting. They may get what they need yet.

cynicalpeace 2y ago
Yeah, we don't know yet, but if Europe steps up, USA will be happy, Trump will be happy, Ukraine will be happy too. But Europe would never step up if Trump didn't play hardball. The issue is- who from Europe will step up? All the European governments are overwhelmingly bureaucratic and boring. No leader amongst them.

trymas 2y ago

I’d say money and security guarantees were never on the table. My speculation is this - Trump in his head thought he could steam roll “peace in 24h” kind of thing with no pushback like he can do domestically. He went (behind Ukraine’s back) to talk with ruzzians - they gave a hint that it’s either total Ukraine’s capitulation or they are not interested. Trump then tried to extort Zelenski into signing capitulation wrapped into “minerals deal”. I strongly believe Zelenski was hoping to find common ground in the white house, but trump did not give in and understandably, neither Zelenski wanted to stick to original plan as he said it multiple times in a week before. Then Trump felt fire under his feet - mister “art if the deal” couldn’t strong arm Ukraine into capitulation. How he will look against MAGA? He needs to show he’s “the man”. Bully the man standing up to the modern Mordor, like a bunch of 13 year olds after school. .. but “it’s great TV”. EDIT: btw trump could’ve used same leverage against ruzzia. I’d argue ruzzia is not in better spot than Ukraine. Blockade ruzzian shadow fleets, set fire to their war chest, whatever. But trump instead chose to align himself with despotic dictators instead of alies. Trump is really scared of Putin (see Helsinki meeting of 2018), but has personal vendetta against Zelenski for not bending the knee for Biden investigation.

cynicalpeace 2y ago
> I strongly believe Zelenski was hoping to find common ground in the white house, but trump did not give in and understandably, neither Zelenski wanted to stick to original plan as he said it multiple times in a week before. This is simply not true. Zelensky and his cabinet rewrote the initial minerals deal (which was not favorable to them) and wanted it. Zelensky even wanted to come back to the White House to sign it.