4 ms·

Further to this point, what people call "free trade" is in many cases actually not free at all. A good example of this is the bilateral relationship with Thaila

Further to this point, what people call "free trade" is in many cases actually not free at all. A good example of this is the bilateral relationship with Thailand, they put tons of tariffs on US imports, and the US puts very few tariffs on Thailand. Why? The rationale for this is ostensibly that the US would like to have more political influence in Southeast Asia, or hasn't totally internalized that the Cold War is over, or something. (It also so happens that Thailand places very low tariffs on Chinese goods - and their government has been currying political favor with Beijing for a long time - they are happy to enjoy unrestricted access to US markets and seem quite confident that the status quo will endure so if we are trying to buy political influence with them, we seemingly have been so toothless that it isn't even working!) The US has deals like this all over the planet where it gives other countries unrestricted access to its markets, in return for what is not clear. A lot of these deals contributed to the movement of US manufacturing to places like Thailand, which hit the US working class in the wallet very directly. Sure there are also good deals that we should preserve as-is but it doesn't seem unreasonable at all to me that some of these be subjected to scrutiny and revision.

zmgsabst 2y ago
That’s why Trump saying he’ll normalize tariffs is popular: Many Americans feel cheated, whereby they give better terms to other parties and don’t even get respect in return. So they now support a movement to mirror that behavior. This is an example of the iterated prisoner’s dilemma: one side defected on a partnership for their benefit, trust collapsed, and now the originally cooperative partner is acting selfishly as well. Reciprocation is a fundamental part of relationships. The US isn’t the entity that needs to hear “cooperating is better than a zero sum mindset”. Edit to respond: Most of those people are upset about that as well: - foreign owned farmland and corporations; - foreign owned condos, etc; - inflated stock prices enriching Wall St relative to Main St; …and so on. What you’re describing is the concerns of the petite bourgeoisie who have benefitted from inflated stock prices, housing prices, and land prices. For Trump supporters, ending that distortion in the market while boosting domestic labor is a win-win.
- PedroBatista 2y ago
  Americans will “feel cheated” again when reality arrives and learn that a huge part of their economic power is based on the world dumping trillions of dollars of their savings into us stocks, bonds and real estate, thus making the US dollar artificially strong, making it possible for Americans to buy stuff and being rich. Wait until foreign money and trust starts leaving the US to see how “betrayed” you really get, now it has been la la land, let’s wait for the next act..
  - deleted 2y ago
    [deleted]
- deleted 2y ago
  [deleted]
- fifilura 2y ago
  I don't think the average American knows about what tariffs USA has against Thailand. I think they feel cheated because they are told to feel cheated.
  - absolutelastone 2y ago
    I assume the intended audience for the tariff talk is rust belt workers (who swung the election) who feel cheated for more dramatic reasons like their company folding while foreign suppliers thrive.
- kuschku 2y ago
  > Many Americans feel cheated, whereby they give better terms to other parties and don’t even get respect in return > - foreign owned farmland and corporations; That's hilarious. Many languages have a specific term for US private equity investors that rush in, buy up entire countries' corporations, then try to squeeze out every cent of profit. Especially after the fall of the Berlin wall and the iron curtain this became a massive issue. See also https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heuschreckendebatte https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heuschreckendebatte Every American - even the demographics that typically support Trump - has benefited from this.

zmgsabst 2y ago

That’s why Trump saying he’ll normalize tariffs is popular: Many Americans feel cheated, whereby they give better terms to other parties and don’t even get respect in return. So they now support a movement to mirror that behavior. This is an example of the iterated prisoner’s dilemma: one side defected on a partnership for their benefit, trust collapsed, and now the originally cooperative partner is acting selfishly as well. Reciprocation is a fundamental part of relationships. The US isn’t the entity that needs to hear “cooperating is better than a zero sum mindset”. Edit to respond: Most of those people are upset about that as well: - foreign owned farmland and corporations; - foreign owned condos, etc; - inflated stock prices enriching Wall St relative to Main St; …and so on. What you’re describing is the concerns of the petite bourgeoisie who have benefitted from inflated stock prices, housing prices, and land prices. For Trump supporters, ending that distortion in the market while boosting domestic labor is a win-win.

PedroBatista 2y ago
Americans will “feel cheated” again when reality arrives and learn that a huge part of their economic power is based on the world dumping trillions of dollars of their savings into us stocks, bonds and real estate, thus making the US dollar artificially strong, making it possible for Americans to buy stuff and being rich. Wait until foreign money and trust starts leaving the US to see how “betrayed” you really get, now it has been la la land, let’s wait for the next act..
- deleted 2y ago
  [deleted]
deleted 2y ago
[deleted]
fifilura 2y ago
I don't think the average American knows about what tariffs USA has against Thailand. I think they feel cheated because they are told to feel cheated.
- absolutelastone 2y ago
  I assume the intended audience for the tariff talk is rust belt workers (who swung the election) who feel cheated for more dramatic reasons like their company folding while foreign suppliers thrive.
kuschku 2y ago
> Many Americans feel cheated, whereby they give better terms to other parties and don’t even get respect in return > - foreign owned farmland and corporations; That's hilarious. Many languages have a specific term for US private equity investors that rush in, buy up entire countries' corporations, then try to squeeze out every cent of profit. Especially after the fall of the Berlin wall and the iron curtain this became a massive issue. See also https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heuschreckendebatte https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heuschreckendebatte Every American - even the demographics that typically support Trump - has benefited from this.