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Think a lot of people here are missing the forest for the trees. We are witnessing the collapse of the unipolar world order that has brought relative freedom an
by iamEAP 2y ago
Think a lot of people here are missing the forest for the trees. We are witnessing the collapse of the unipolar world order that has brought relative freedom and prosperity to most of the world for the last three and a half decades.
I don’t know what comes next. No one does. But Europe needs a deep-rethink of a lot more than just defense if it wants to have any say in what the next world order is going to look like. Otherwise, we’re looking at four decades of less peace and less prosperity.
- kakadu 2y ago> that has brought relative freedom and prosperity to most of the world for the last three and a half decades. What an incredible take. I cannot possibly think of a US intervention that went well for the receiving end.
- throwaway290 2y agoOff the top of my head apartheid in South Africa, ethnic cleansing of Albanians and genocide in Serbia, WWII... maybe indirectly, end of oppressive horrible USSR where I was born
- rKarpinski 2y ago> I cannot possibly think of a US intervention that went well for the receiving end. Germany, Japan and the post WW2 order in question are probably the best candidates.
- IAmGraydon 2y ago[flagged]
- 42772827 2y agohttps://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bretton_Woods_system https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bretton_Woods_system
- ponector 2y agoUSA did not intervent into 2014 Crimea annexation and here we are. And don't forget Ukraine gave up nukes for security assurances from USA, UK and rusia. As we can see now, it was a mistake. Declaration means little
- DeepSeaTortoise 2y agoWith Russia and China reaching out to each other after many decades of nearly no contact and Trump reaching out to Russia after about a decade, it might as well be a sign of the very opposite. This might genuinely be the birth of a true unipolar world order. No idea if that's good or bad...
- hkpack 2y agoThat is what current US administration hope, but it is a bluff from the russia at least. They view US as weak now, and will not stop until it is collapses on itself.
- nathansherburn 2y agoWith who in control? A Russia, China and US alliance? This seems very unlikely to me. All signs indicate we're moving to a multipolar world as far as I can tell. China owns an increasing majority of global GDP and Trump seems to be either taking a path of peace, populism and or stupidity by pulling America out of its global alliances.
- maratc 2y agoThat’s one possibility; a different one is that Trump considers China as the real contender for the US in the 21st century, and wants to pivot the US attention there (and out of Europe.)
- nathansherburn 2y agoHow does divorcing Europe make the US stronger against China?
- maratc 2y agoI'm not a military strategist but if one believes that the real power competition in this century is going to be played between the US and China, it would make sense to concentrate on that direction. And if so, Europe becomes a distraction.
- mycall 2y ago> last three and a half decades. That is laughably tiny in the grand scheme of things.
- LastTrain 2y agoWhat is your point, exactly? It is a huge chunk of time in human scale.
- LastTrain 2y agoOn the contrary, I think pretty much everyone is aware of it but doesn’t want to think about it.
- iamEAP 2y agoHere in Sweden, following news of “peace talks” where both Ukraine and Europe were sidelined, the prime minister referenced a “new Yalta” as a troubling scenario, especially for small nations like ours. Whether intentionally or not, the USA is relinquishing its role as global hegemon, and at least the baltics and nordics are contemplating the ramifications.
- neom 2y agoAs a Canadian to a Svenskar. Your last sentence makes me wonder what we're really angry at the Americans for. Most folks in my country have pissed on Americans for as long as I can remember for thinking they are the world police and "keeping world order". Well uhm, turns out they were and now we're annoyed they don't want to do it anymore? It's interesting, feels like to a degree some folks are pissed off about America stopping the very thing they wanted them to stop? Interesting times.
- bjoli 2y agoWe are not angry at the US for defending the democratic world order. We are angry at the US for things like Gitmo, withdrawing from the Rome statute, supporting an alleged genocide in Gaza etc. What they are doing now is saying might makes right, marking and end of the reign of the liberal democracy.
- neom 2y agoNo dispute there, I think I was wondering aloud if there is a bit of cake and eat it too, going on? And if so, to what degree? I think it's hard to have that perspective well from my vantage point hence the question/pondering.
- iamEAP 2y ago
- maratc 2y agoI agree, however the unipolar world ceased to exist a while ago. My take on what we are witnessing is that the US finally acknowledges that what has worked in the unipolar world won’t work in the one we have.
- IAmGraydon 2y agoWhat does this even mean? The world was working just fine before a nutjob with an axe to grind with the west decided to invade its democratic neighbor.
- maratc 2y ago> What does this even mean? For a short period after the collapse of the USSR, the world used to have only one superpower (which was the US), but it's not the situation anymore. > The world was working just fine I guess you missed the rise of Chinese GDP from 3% to 20% of global GDP, their military buildup, and their advances on the neighbors and the sea.
- deleted 2y ago[deleted]
- calebio 2y agoThe world was not "working just fine". It _appeared_ to be "working just fine" but it isn't. Take a look at U.S. shipbuilding capacity, U.S. military equipment maintenance, and the defense industrial base that is maintaining the _appearance_ of the powerful status quo. This isn't unique to the U.S., the same is happening in Russia. Turns out it costs a _lot_ of money to keep this charade up for everyone.