5 ms·

I don't agree that it is a bad look. People on welfare are taking from the system and people who cross our borders and enter and stay in our country without vi

I don't agree that it is a bad look. People on welfare are taking from the system and people who cross our borders and enter and stay in our country without visas are illegal. People who look at such things with "horror" dehumanize the conversation by refusing to admit the harsh truths of the world. It is like they bathe themselves in weakness and virtue signaling. They hide from how cruel the world is and try to bring everything down to some tame level that doesn't exist solely so they can control the discourse.

saagarjha 2y ago
You can help make the world a less cruel place.
- DamnYuppie 2y ago
  Yes, but making the world a less cruel place requires strength—strength of purpose, strength of character, and intellectual strength to have hard conversations about hard realities. We don’t reduce cruelty by ignoring the harm done by those who break the law. The people you defend are not victims—they are the ones making life harder for others, whether it’s overwhelming social services, committing crimes, or undercutting legal immigrants who followed the rules. We don’t fight cruelty by sanitizing language or pretending reality isn’t what it is. We fight it by acknowledging hard truths and having the courage to address them honestly, not emotionally.
  - joebig 2y ago
    [flagged]
    - DamnYuppie 2y ago
      [flagged]
  - saagarjha 2y ago
    Social services are designed to serve people. If it is being overwhelmed, that's because it's been underfunded.
AlecSchueler 2y ago
> People on welfare are taking from the system and people who cross our borders and enter and stay in our country without visas are illegal. They are taking from the system, yes. They are people who receive welfare, not parasites. People who emigrate illegally have committed a crime, they are not themselves a crime , they are not themselves illegal. The most we could stretch to would be "illegally present people." But going further and calling a group of people "illegals" removes the human aspect from the conversation and is therefore quite literally dehumanising. > People who look at such things with "horror" dehumanize the conversation A conversation is not a human so this point comes across as absurd. Could you rephrase it? > It is like they bathe themselves in weakness and virtue signaling. This point comes across as a vaccuous ad hominem, could you rephrase it? > They hide from how cruel the world is I can speak for myself and say that I am very much not doing that. I couldn't be more conscious of the fact that the last time language like this was normalised it lead to the deaths of millions of innocent people. This cannot happen again. It is purely the incredible cruelty of this world that drives me to say what I am saying.
- pclmulqdq 2y ago
  When the completely descriptive term "illegal immigrant" becomes somehow an immoral thing to call people who immigrate illegally, it was a bit absurd. Literally every illegal immigrant has committed a crime, by definition, and that crime is immigrating illegally - "illegal" describes the mode of immigration. The previous administration used "undocumented immigrant" (and often shortened it to "undocumented") as a sort of "softening" language game.
  - snozolli 2y ago
    When the completely descriptive term "illegal immigrant" becomes somehow an immoral thing to call people who immigrate illegally, it was a bit absurd I think you're missing GP's point. It's "illegals" that's arguably dehumanizing. Similar to "blacks" or "the blacks" versus "black people". I'm not saying that I necessarily agree with GP, but I've definitely picked up on racism from people who talk about "blacks" instead of black people, and the homophobia from people who talk about "the gays" instead of gay people.

saagarjha 2y ago

You can help make the world a less cruel place.

DamnYuppie 2y ago
Yes, but making the world a less cruel place requires strength—strength of purpose, strength of character, and intellectual strength to have hard conversations about hard realities. We don’t reduce cruelty by ignoring the harm done by those who break the law. The people you defend are not victims—they are the ones making life harder for others, whether it’s overwhelming social services, committing crimes, or undercutting legal immigrants who followed the rules. We don’t fight cruelty by sanitizing language or pretending reality isn’t what it is. We fight it by acknowledging hard truths and having the courage to address them honestly, not emotionally.
- joebig 2y ago
  [flagged]
  - DamnYuppie 2y ago
    [flagged]
- saagarjha 2y ago
  Social services are designed to serve people. If it is being overwhelmed, that's because it's been underfunded.

AlecSchueler 2y ago

> People on welfare are taking from the system and people who cross our borders and enter and stay in our country without visas are illegal. They are taking from the system, yes. They are people who receive welfare, not parasites. People who emigrate illegally have committed a crime, they are not themselves a crime , they are not themselves illegal. The most we could stretch to would be "illegally present people." But going further and calling a group of people "illegals" removes the human aspect from the conversation and is therefore quite literally dehumanising. > People who look at such things with "horror" dehumanize the conversation A conversation is not a human so this point comes across as absurd. Could you rephrase it? > It is like they bathe themselves in weakness and virtue signaling. This point comes across as a vaccuous ad hominem, could you rephrase it? > They hide from how cruel the world is I can speak for myself and say that I am very much not doing that. I couldn't be more conscious of the fact that the last time language like this was normalised it lead to the deaths of millions of innocent people. This cannot happen again. It is purely the incredible cruelty of this world that drives me to say what I am saying.

pclmulqdq 2y ago
When the completely descriptive term "illegal immigrant" becomes somehow an immoral thing to call people who immigrate illegally, it was a bit absurd. Literally every illegal immigrant has committed a crime, by definition, and that crime is immigrating illegally - "illegal" describes the mode of immigration. The previous administration used "undocumented immigrant" (and often shortened it to "undocumented") as a sort of "softening" language game.
- snozolli 2y ago
  When the completely descriptive term "illegal immigrant" becomes somehow an immoral thing to call people who immigrate illegally, it was a bit absurd I think you're missing GP's point. It's "illegals" that's arguably dehumanizing. Similar to "blacks" or "the blacks" versus "black people". I'm not saying that I necessarily agree with GP, but I've definitely picked up on racism from people who talk about "blacks" instead of black people, and the homophobia from people who talk about "the gays" instead of gay people.