4 ms·

Does this license mean copyright? In Germany you cannot protect facts with copyright. Something like "Flat for rent: $size m², $price €, $coordinates, $link" se

Does this license mean copyright? In Germany you cannot protect facts with copyright. Something like "Flat for rent: $size m², $price €, $coordinates, $link" seems more like a fact or an idea.

dangrossman 14y ago
You can't protect facts with copyright anywhere, AFAIK. The listing consists of more than facts, including a descriptive title, the descriptive text of the listing, and the attached images. These are all protected. At the moment, PadMapper does not copy any of these things. It's been pointed out. Let's not rehash what's already been said ad nauseum in the PadMapper story comments and stick to discussing this submission.
- rincewind 14y ago
  I did not mean to change the subject. This measure just seems ineffective at stopping PadMapper. But it seems like it will stop people from posting their ads elsewhere.
- analog 14y ago
  I'm not sure that a title or short description would be copyrightable "a work must meet minimal standards of originality in order to qualify for copyright" The photographs however would be covered by copyright. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Copyright http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Copyright
  - dedward 14y ago
    Does it need ot be copyrightable in order for you to agree to contractual terms about something?
    - jahewson 14y ago
      Yes, becuse if you grant someone exclusive rights then you need to possess those exclusive rights in the first place. If the material is not protectable, then you don't have any rights to grant to others.
  - NLips 14y ago
    I don't think that copyright for photographs would be covered by the Craigslist claim though: 'Clicking "Continue" confirms that craigslist is the exclusive licensee of this content, with the exclusive right to enforce copyrights against anyone copying, republishing, distributing or preparing derivative works without its consent.' I have an original photo and publish it as part of a listing ('the content'). The photo is not a derivative work.
    - anamax 14y ago
      > craigslist is the exclusive licensee of this content, with the exclusive right to enforce copyrights against anyone copying, republishing, distributing or preparing derivative works without its consent.' > I have an original photo and publish it as part of a listing ('the content'). The photo is not a derivative work. No, but if someone uses that photo (from the listing) to make something else, that something else is a derivative work, and thus covered by the craigslist license. I suspect that the craigslist wording isn't intended to be restricted to derivative works. That is, I think that they meant to include content as is in addition to derived work from said content.
kleiba 14y ago
Also, in Germany you cannot give up or transfer copyright to someone else.
- robomartin 14y ago
  How does that work? If I write a book and then sell it to a book publisher and want to transfer all rights and copyrights? I can't?
  - andyjohnson0 14y ago
    There is some information here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Copyright_law_of_Germany#Transfer http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Copyright_law_of_Germany#Transf... It looks like you can't transfer copyright but you can exclusively licence it.
    - Xylakant 14y ago
      It's a bit more complicated: We don't have copyright as the americans do, it's split in "Urheberrecht" which is the part the the creator owns and cannot license or sell and the "Verwertungsrecht" which is the right to use the work. Urheberrecht encompasses thing such as the right do defend against modifications that go against the spirit of the work or the author or against defacing it, the right to be named as the creator (though this one can be waived by contract depending on the circumstance) etc. The Urheberrecht can only be transferred by inheritance. The Verwertungsrechte is anything related to the use of the work, such as selling, buying, (sub)licensing it. Please keep in mind that this is a gross oversimplification and IANAL. The copyright situation is complicated enough for experts in the field and cannot be explained in a short post I guess :)
  - wpietri 14y ago
    I would be surprised if an author really wanted to do such a thing. The authors I know would be livid if a publisher, say, changed the ending. Publishers typically get the right to publish, and that's it. Opening a few books from my library randomly, the authors or their heirs all hold the copyright.

Does this license mean copyright? In Germany you cannot protect facts with copyright. Something like "Flat for rent: $size m², $price €, $coordinates, $link" seems more like a fact or an idea.

dangrossman 14y ago

You can't protect facts with copyright anywhere, AFAIK. The listing consists of more than facts, including a descriptive title, the descriptive text of the listing, and the attached images. These are all protected. At the moment, PadMapper does not copy any of these things. It's been pointed out. Let's not rehash what's already been said ad nauseum in the PadMapper story comments and stick to discussing this submission.

rincewind 14y ago
I did not mean to change the subject. This measure just seems ineffective at stopping PadMapper. But it seems like it will stop people from posting their ads elsewhere.
analog 14y ago
I'm not sure that a title or short description would be copyrightable "a work must meet minimal standards of originality in order to qualify for copyright" The photographs however would be covered by copyright. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Copyright http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Copyright
- dedward 14y ago
  Does it need ot be copyrightable in order for you to agree to contractual terms about something?
  - jahewson 14y ago
    Yes, becuse if you grant someone exclusive rights then you need to possess those exclusive rights in the first place. If the material is not protectable, then you don't have any rights to grant to others.
- NLips 14y ago
  I don't think that copyright for photographs would be covered by the Craigslist claim though: 'Clicking "Continue" confirms that craigslist is the exclusive licensee of this content, with the exclusive right to enforce copyrights against anyone copying, republishing, distributing or preparing derivative works without its consent.' I have an original photo and publish it as part of a listing ('the content'). The photo is not a derivative work.
  - anamax 14y ago
    > craigslist is the exclusive licensee of this content, with the exclusive right to enforce copyrights against anyone copying, republishing, distributing or preparing derivative works without its consent.' > I have an original photo and publish it as part of a listing ('the content'). The photo is not a derivative work. No, but if someone uses that photo (from the listing) to make something else, that something else is a derivative work, and thus covered by the craigslist license. I suspect that the craigslist wording isn't intended to be restricted to derivative works. That is, I think that they meant to include content as is in addition to derived work from said content.

kleiba 14y ago

Also, in Germany you cannot give up or transfer copyright to someone else.

robomartin 14y ago
How does that work? If I write a book and then sell it to a book publisher and want to transfer all rights and copyrights? I can't?
- andyjohnson0 14y ago
  There is some information here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Copyright_law_of_Germany#Transfer http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Copyright_law_of_Germany#Transf... It looks like you can't transfer copyright but you can exclusively licence it.
  - Xylakant 14y ago
    It's a bit more complicated: We don't have copyright as the americans do, it's split in "Urheberrecht" which is the part the the creator owns and cannot license or sell and the "Verwertungsrecht" which is the right to use the work. Urheberrecht encompasses thing such as the right do defend against modifications that go against the spirit of the work or the author or against defacing it, the right to be named as the creator (though this one can be waived by contract depending on the circumstance) etc. The Urheberrecht can only be transferred by inheritance. The Verwertungsrechte is anything related to the use of the work, such as selling, buying, (sub)licensing it. Please keep in mind that this is a gross oversimplification and IANAL. The copyright situation is complicated enough for experts in the field and cannot be explained in a short post I guess :)
- wpietri 14y ago
  I would be surprised if an author really wanted to do such a thing. The authors I know would be livid if a publisher, say, changed the ending. Publishers typically get the right to publish, and that's it. Opening a few books from my library randomly, the authors or their heirs all hold the copyright.