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The US did nothing but benefit from the war really. So any talk about ending support being in the United States' interest is a serious misreading of the situati

The US did nothing but benefit from the war really. So any talk about ending support being in the United States' interest is a serious misreading of the situation. The US was sending old equipment. To replace it they were and spending money on R&D and manufacturing of current and next-gen equipment for the US military, not Ukraine. The US got to observe and study the use of it's older equipment in an actual land war against a geopolitical adversary. The war has demonstrated US equipment superiority over Russian equipment. The US did not send any troops, only old equipment and some money. Regarding "hopes to end the killing". The killing can end today if Putin withdraws. He is the aggressor who attacked without any justification or provocation. If somebody invades your neighbour's apartment and starts looting and hurting them, do you just say "give up, it's easier"? Some might but those are not people we respect.

dmix 2y ago
The US and the west as a whole are already a very big winner for the war and it was 100% worth the investment. But for how long should it continue? Ignoring Trump's terrible negotiation strategy I still think there's value in some sort of ceasefire. Continuing a brutal stalemate is not something we should take lightly just to burn through a few more Russian tanks. It's mostly just T-60s and cheap Iranian drones left anyway. They've been thoroughly embarrassed. The history of war is full of unhappy truces and compromise. WW2 type victories are extremely rare and take massive sacrifice.
- Swenrekcah 2y ago
  Of course, but it is extraordinarily optimistic, naive even, to think that freezing the conflict now without any security guarantees for Ukraine is anything but a gift to Russia, who will turn to preparing the next invasion. And keep in mind, we're not doing the sacrificing. It is Ukraine who is doing the fighting and should be calling the shots here, with our material support since we don't want to send troops (until now).
  - dmix 2y ago
    > freezing the conflict now without any security guarantees for Ukraine From what I've read I think the only plan put forward is to have Europeans run the DMZ? The US having troops there would probably be a no-go since that's the primary power-conflict (even above NATO). I don't think there's any other option as historically there's always a third party regulating it. Maybe a subset of UN where possibly even China could have troops there. Not sure what guarantees would exist for breaking the ceasefire though, besides the usual full sanctions/weapons/maybe troops. Who knows what happens now though :/
- scott_w 2y ago
  Why? Some accounts believe Russia will break by the end of this year as its terrible financial situation catches up to it. People are starting to doubt if they can even launch a nuke any more. It seems wise to me to push a bit harder to see if you can tip a military adversary over the edge and force a full capitulation, rather than giving them time to recover.
  - YZF 2y ago
    As long as China supports Russia there is no way Ukraine is going to break Russia. Putin cares nothing about the human cost from his side and it's unlikely Ukraine can have enough of an advantage to be able to push back. See the "spring offensive". The reality is more or less a stalemate at this point. While the Trump administration treatment of Zelensky is a disgrace the reality is that some sort of ceasefire around the current borders is going to be the outcome that ends this war. We can work on forcing Russia to withdraw via economic and other pressure after the hot war is over. Just like we broke up the Soviet Union. This idea of one more year and Russia will break is just a dream with no connection to reality. Putin is going to send a million man to fight with sticks before Russia breaks. And they will.
    - scott_w 2y ago
      Is China supporting Russia? I see opportunistic grabs for cheap oil and gas but nothing more than that. It’s not fixing the rampant inflation and growing budget deficit. > We can work on forcing Russia to withdraw via economic and other pressure after the hot war is over. Just like we broke up the Soviet Union. You think Trump plans to maintain sanctions? You sweet summer child.
      - YZF 2y ago
        North Korea is a China agent in this context. China is pretty much supplying all the goods that went away due to western sanctions, everything Russian factories need, and buying all the exports that the west is trying to sanction. My statement had nothing to do with Trump maintaining sanctions or not. If he doesn't some future administration will. US relations with the Soviets also fluctuated during the cold war.
aeternum 2y ago
[flagged]
- Swenrekcah 2y ago
  A fine attempt to turn things on their head, but again the only one who enables the fighting is Putin's Russia. The conflict can be stopped right now with loss of territory so long as Ukraine is given trustworthy guarantees that Russia won't invade again as soon as they've licked their wounds a bit. That is the ask, and the only one who can provide that is realistically the United States, or Europe with guaranteed support from the United States.
- mattlutze 2y ago
  Russia broke treaty, law, moral foundation and democratic order for a second time in a decade to try and take all of the Ukraine. You appear to forget history, but plenty of citizens were able to leave through the back door while able-bodied citizens were required to do the only reasonable thing a democracy can do and defend its sovereignty. First with what they had, then with conservatively provided weapons as other countries tried to figure out if Putin would actually use nukes, and finally with more effective munitions when it was apparent he would not. No neighbor is locked in, and the US embarrasses itself as it simps for Russia in the UN and parades the president of an invaded democracy around in a jester hat.
- Izikiel43 2y ago
  > The border is closed, Ukrainian citizens are being rounded up and forced onto the battlefield. Welcome to a war, those rights are not free.
- joyeuse6701 2y ago
  In the military context, breaking formation and abandoning your post (as you suggest) is a punishable offense, even with death. By the way, if you’d like to see a real life example of this neighborly coercion you’re so concerned about, Russia is the most guilty party with its blocking units. As a matter of fact, given the tremendous amount of dead on the Russian side, you should be appealing to Putin to stop this, not Ukraine.
- 2y ago

dmix 2y ago

The US and the west as a whole are already a very big winner for the war and it was 100% worth the investment. But for how long should it continue? Ignoring Trump's terrible negotiation strategy I still think there's value in some sort of ceasefire. Continuing a brutal stalemate is not something we should take lightly just to burn through a few more Russian tanks. It's mostly just T-60s and cheap Iranian drones left anyway. They've been thoroughly embarrassed. The history of war is full of unhappy truces and compromise. WW2 type victories are extremely rare and take massive sacrifice.

Swenrekcah 2y ago
Of course, but it is extraordinarily optimistic, naive even, to think that freezing the conflict now without any security guarantees for Ukraine is anything but a gift to Russia, who will turn to preparing the next invasion. And keep in mind, we're not doing the sacrificing. It is Ukraine who is doing the fighting and should be calling the shots here, with our material support since we don't want to send troops (until now).
- dmix 2y ago
  > freezing the conflict now without any security guarantees for Ukraine From what I've read I think the only plan put forward is to have Europeans run the DMZ? The US having troops there would probably be a no-go since that's the primary power-conflict (even above NATO). I don't think there's any other option as historically there's always a third party regulating it. Maybe a subset of UN where possibly even China could have troops there. Not sure what guarantees would exist for breaking the ceasefire though, besides the usual full sanctions/weapons/maybe troops. Who knows what happens now though :/
scott_w 2y ago
Why? Some accounts believe Russia will break by the end of this year as its terrible financial situation catches up to it. People are starting to doubt if they can even launch a nuke any more. It seems wise to me to push a bit harder to see if you can tip a military adversary over the edge and force a full capitulation, rather than giving them time to recover.
- YZF 2y ago
  As long as China supports Russia there is no way Ukraine is going to break Russia. Putin cares nothing about the human cost from his side and it's unlikely Ukraine can have enough of an advantage to be able to push back. See the "spring offensive". The reality is more or less a stalemate at this point. While the Trump administration treatment of Zelensky is a disgrace the reality is that some sort of ceasefire around the current borders is going to be the outcome that ends this war. We can work on forcing Russia to withdraw via economic and other pressure after the hot war is over. Just like we broke up the Soviet Union. This idea of one more year and Russia will break is just a dream with no connection to reality. Putin is going to send a million man to fight with sticks before Russia breaks. And they will.
  - scott_w 2y ago
    Is China supporting Russia? I see opportunistic grabs for cheap oil and gas but nothing more than that. It’s not fixing the rampant inflation and growing budget deficit. > We can work on forcing Russia to withdraw via economic and other pressure after the hot war is over. Just like we broke up the Soviet Union. You think Trump plans to maintain sanctions? You sweet summer child.
    - YZF 2y ago
      North Korea is a China agent in this context. China is pretty much supplying all the goods that went away due to western sanctions, everything Russian factories need, and buying all the exports that the west is trying to sanction. My statement had nothing to do with Trump maintaining sanctions or not. If he doesn't some future administration will. US relations with the Soviets also fluctuated during the cold war.

aeternum 2y ago

[flagged]

Swenrekcah 2y ago
A fine attempt to turn things on their head, but again the only one who enables the fighting is Putin's Russia. The conflict can be stopped right now with loss of territory so long as Ukraine is given trustworthy guarantees that Russia won't invade again as soon as they've licked their wounds a bit. That is the ask, and the only one who can provide that is realistically the United States, or Europe with guaranteed support from the United States.
mattlutze 2y ago
Russia broke treaty, law, moral foundation and democratic order for a second time in a decade to try and take all of the Ukraine. You appear to forget history, but plenty of citizens were able to leave through the back door while able-bodied citizens were required to do the only reasonable thing a democracy can do and defend its sovereignty. First with what they had, then with conservatively provided weapons as other countries tried to figure out if Putin would actually use nukes, and finally with more effective munitions when it was apparent he would not. No neighbor is locked in, and the US embarrasses itself as it simps for Russia in the UN and parades the president of an invaded democracy around in a jester hat.
Izikiel43 2y ago
> The border is closed, Ukrainian citizens are being rounded up and forced onto the battlefield. Welcome to a war, those rights are not free.
joyeuse6701 2y ago
In the military context, breaking formation and abandoning your post (as you suggest) is a punishable offense, even with death. By the way, if you’d like to see a real life example of this neighborly coercion you’re so concerned about, Russia is the most guilty party with its blocking units. As a matter of fact, given the tremendous amount of dead on the Russian side, you should be appealing to Putin to stop this, not Ukraine.
2y ago