11 ms·

1750 comments, why is it #25 on HN? All the while "3,200% CPU Utilization" with 100 comments is #1. Which is niche at best.

digitalnatives 2y ago
I don’t see it at page #1 or #2
- The28thDuck 2y ago
  This post was hidden by mods I think - not on front page
  - Nition 2y ago
    It is still on the front page right now for me, but at #23, which is exceptionally low compared to where it would be expected to be "naturally" for a post with 1585 points.
    - dang 2y ago
      The short answer is that upvotes alone don't determine rank; upvotes and flags do (and other factors - see https://news.ycombinator.com/newsfaq.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsfaq.html). If you want more information, I posted a longer answer at https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=43212835 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=43212835. If you read that and still have a question that isn't answered there, I'd be happy to take a crack at it.
      - Nition 2y ago
        Thanks, I think you do a fantastic job moderating Hacker News and I realise this post is on a topic that usually wouldn't be surfaced here at all. I do wish all our world leaders could be as diplomatic as you. And maybe I should read the FAQ properly before I comment on where a post 'should' be ranked.
        dang 2y ago
        Thanks for the kind words - and I didn't mean to FAQ-shame you :)
- dang 2y ago
  You should, because everyone sees the same front page. Edit: and indeed, the same site generally. That's one thing I used to post a lot about but not so much in recent years. https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=all&page=0&prefix=true&query=by%3Adang%20site%20silo&sort=byDate&type=comment https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=all&page=0&prefix=true&que...
dang 2y ago
> Which is niche at best Let me answer that bit first. Most good HN threads are "niche", meaning they are about things far less important than major events. This is on purpose, because if a story's importance were the criterion for HN's front page, then HN would be a current affairs site, and that is definitely not its mandate (https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html). One could even say that HN is more for unimportant things, as long as they gratify intellectual curiosity, but the most accurate way to put it is that importance alone is not a criterion. A certain amount of political overlap has always been part of the mix (that's why the site guidelines say "most" and "probably" - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=4922426 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=4922426), but we're careful not to let that part get too large, because we want to preserve HN for its intended purpose. Here are some links that point to lots of past explanations about this: some political overlap is ok, but only some - https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=all&page=0&prefix=false&sort=byDate&type=comment&query=political%20overlap%20by:dang https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=all&page=0&prefix=false&so... not a current affairs site - https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=all&page=0&prefix=true&query=by%3Adang%20current%20affairs%20site&sort=byDate&type=comment https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=all&page=0&prefix=true&que... optimizing for curiosity - https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=all&page=0&prefix=true&sort=byDate&type=comment&query=curiosity%20optimiz%20by:dang https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=all&page=0&prefix=true&sor... not burning to a crisp - https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=all&page=0&prefix=true&query=by%3Adang%20burn%20crisp&sort=byDate&type=comment https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=all&page=0&prefix=true&que... If you review the first part of https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html and then take a look at these links, and still have a question I haven't answered, I'd be happy to take a crack at it. > 1750 comments, why is it #25 on HN? This is answered in the FAQ: https://news.ycombinator.com/newsfaq.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsfaq.html, but I'll expand on what it says there. Number of comments doesn't make a thread rank higher on HN. Upvotes make it rank higher, and flags make it rank lower. At this moment the balance between upvotes and flags on this story (and other factors, like the time of submission) combine to rank it at #23 or so. HN's front page is a product of 3 things: community moderation (e.g. upvotes, flags), software moderation (e.g. flamewar detector) and moderator action (e.g. turning off flags, downweighting, or selecting posts for the SCP - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=26998308 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=26998308). In this case, community moderation was removing the story from the front page altogether (because flags were dominating upvotes). I overrode that by turning off the flags. Why? Because whatever else one says about this story, it is an interesting new phenomenon (a phrase from https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html). It may even be unprecedented. However, I didn't turn off the flags to such a degree that the thread would be at #1 because it is not in HN's interest to have a divisive, indignant, and bellicose topic at the top of the front page. That would send the wrong message about what this site is for. Having this thread on the front page, but lower down, sends an accurate message about what this site is for. (As for what it is and isn't for—that is covered in the links I listed above.) Another way of putting this is that while it's in HN's interest to have occasional threads on topics like this, it's important that the flames not burn so hot as to risk burning the site to a crisp. After the 'crisp' would come scorched earth, which is not interesting—it would do no good for HN to end up there. It's true that this tends to be the default fate of internet forums, but HN has right from the beginning (https://news.ycombinator.com/newswelcome.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newswelcome.html) been an experiment in trying to stave that fate off for as long as possible. scorched earth is not interesting - https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=all&page=0&prefix=false&query=by%3Adang%20scorched%20earth&sort=byDate&type=comment https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=all&page=0&prefix=false&qu... stave that off - https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=all&page=0&prefix=true&query=stave%20off%20by%3Adang&sort=byDate&type=comment https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=all&page=0&prefix=true&que...
magicalhippo 2y ago
As I understand it HN ranking algorithm penalizes controversial threads, as indicated by roughly equal or higher number of comments compared to upvotes or something along those lines.
- dang 2y ago
  Yes, that's more or less how the flamewar detector works. But I turned it off in this case. (I can't remember if I did that because it had kicked in, or if I was being proactive.) For more info on moderation of this thread and why, see my long comment at https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=43212835 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=43212835.
csa 2y ago
You can work around this a bit by using “new” and/or “active”: https://news.ycombinator.com/active https://news.ycombinator.com/active Since I’ve discovered active, I actually look at it first to find stuff that got pushed off the front page while I was not looking at HN. I appreciate the goal of the front page algo quite a bit, but sometimes it pushes interesting stuff off the front page very aggressively if I am not refreshing HN throughout the day.
deleted 2y ago
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digitalnatives 2y ago

I don’t see it at page #1 or #2

The28thDuck 2y ago
This post was hidden by mods I think - not on front page
- Nition 2y ago
  It is still on the front page right now for me, but at #23, which is exceptionally low compared to where it would be expected to be "naturally" for a post with 1585 points.
  - dang 2y ago
    The short answer is that upvotes alone don't determine rank; upvotes and flags do (and other factors - see https://news.ycombinator.com/newsfaq.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsfaq.html). If you want more information, I posted a longer answer at https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=43212835 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=43212835. If you read that and still have a question that isn't answered there, I'd be happy to take a crack at it.
    - Nition 2y ago
      Thanks, I think you do a fantastic job moderating Hacker News and I realise this post is on a topic that usually wouldn't be surfaced here at all. I do wish all our world leaders could be as diplomatic as you. And maybe I should read the FAQ properly before I comment on where a post 'should' be ranked.
      - dang 2y ago
        Thanks for the kind words - and I didn't mean to FAQ-shame you :)
dang 2y ago
You should, because everyone sees the same front page. Edit: and indeed, the same site generally. That's one thing I used to post a lot about but not so much in recent years. https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=all&page=0&prefix=true&query=by%3Adang%20site%20silo&sort=byDate&type=comment https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=all&page=0&prefix=true&que...

dang 2y ago

> Which is niche at best Let me answer that bit first. Most good HN threads are "niche", meaning they are about things far less important than major events. This is on purpose, because if a story's importance were the criterion for HN's front page, then HN would be a current affairs site, and that is definitely not its mandate (https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html). One could even say that HN is more for unimportant things, as long as they gratify intellectual curiosity, but the most accurate way to put it is that importance alone is not a criterion. A certain amount of political overlap has always been part of the mix (that's why the site guidelines say "most" and "probably" - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=4922426 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=4922426), but we're careful not to let that part get too large, because we want to preserve HN for its intended purpose. Here are some links that point to lots of past explanations about this: some political overlap is ok, but only some - https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=all&page=0&prefix=false&sort=byDate&type=comment&query=political%20overlap%20by:dang https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=all&page=0&prefix=false&so... not a current affairs site - https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=all&page=0&prefix=true&query=by%3Adang%20current%20affairs%20site&sort=byDate&type=comment https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=all&page=0&prefix=true&que... optimizing for curiosity - https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=all&page=0&prefix=true&sort=byDate&type=comment&query=curiosity%20optimiz%20by:dang https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=all&page=0&prefix=true&sor... not burning to a crisp - https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=all&page=0&prefix=true&query=by%3Adang%20burn%20crisp&sort=byDate&type=comment https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=all&page=0&prefix=true&que... If you review the first part of https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html and then take a look at these links, and still have a question I haven't answered, I'd be happy to take a crack at it. > 1750 comments, why is it #25 on HN? This is answered in the FAQ: https://news.ycombinator.com/newsfaq.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsfaq.html, but I'll expand on what it says there. Number of comments doesn't make a thread rank higher on HN. Upvotes make it rank higher, and flags make it rank lower. At this moment the balance between upvotes and flags on this story (and other factors, like the time of submission) combine to rank it at #23 or so. HN's front page is a product of 3 things: community moderation (e.g. upvotes, flags), software moderation (e.g. flamewar detector) and moderator action (e.g. turning off flags, downweighting, or selecting posts for the SCP - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=26998308 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=26998308). In this case, community moderation was removing the story from the front page altogether (because flags were dominating upvotes). I overrode that by turning off the flags. Why? Because whatever else one says about this story, it is an interesting new phenomenon (a phrase from https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html). It may even be unprecedented. However, I didn't turn off the flags to such a degree that the thread would be at #1 because it is not in HN's interest to have a divisive, indignant, and bellicose topic at the top of the front page. That would send the wrong message about what this site is for. Having this thread on the front page, but lower down, sends an accurate message about what this site is for. (As for what it is and isn't for—that is covered in the links I listed above.) Another way of putting this is that while it's in HN's interest to have occasional threads on topics like this, it's important that the flames not burn so hot as to risk burning the site to a crisp. After the 'crisp' would come scorched earth, which is not interesting—it would do no good for HN to end up there. It's true that this tends to be the default fate of internet forums, but HN has right from the beginning (https://news.ycombinator.com/newswelcome.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newswelcome.html) been an experiment in trying to stave that fate off for as long as possible. scorched earth is not interesting - https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=all&page=0&prefix=false&query=by%3Adang%20scorched%20earth&sort=byDate&type=comment https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=all&page=0&prefix=false&qu... stave that off - https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=all&page=0&prefix=true&query=stave%20off%20by%3Adang&sort=byDate&type=comment https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=all&page=0&prefix=true&que...

magicalhippo 2y ago

As I understand it HN ranking algorithm penalizes controversial threads, as indicated by roughly equal or higher number of comments compared to upvotes or something along those lines.

dang 2y ago
Yes, that's more or less how the flamewar detector works. But I turned it off in this case. (I can't remember if I did that because it had kicked in, or if I was being proactive.) For more info on moderation of this thread and why, see my long comment at https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=43212835 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=43212835.

csa 2y ago

You can work around this a bit by using “new” and/or “active”: https://news.ycombinator.com/active https://news.ycombinator.com/active Since I’ve discovered active, I actually look at it first to find stuff that got pushed off the front page while I was not looking at HN. I appreciate the goal of the front page algo quite a bit, but sometimes it pushes interesting stuff off the front page very aggressively if I am not refreshing HN throughout the day.

deleted 2y ago

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