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Not going to happen. EU has its own massive problems. And the countries are not aligned on the politics at all.

consumer451 2y ago
That is not the vibe that I'm feeling over here at all. The USA aligning with Russia was a major wake up call here, and it is leading to solidarity the likes of which I've never seen. For example: https://old.reddit.com/r/europe/comments/1irgt3n/german_chancellor_candidate_who_is_likely_to_win/ https://old.reddit.com/r/europe/comments/1irgt3n/german_chan...
- bufferoverflow 2y ago
  Now do Hungary. Or Slovakia.
  - deleted 2y ago
    [deleted]
- nomel 2y ago
  > The USA aligning with Russia I keep seeing this sentiment, but I'm having trouble understanding it, especially since the terms of whatever possible agreement are not set. To me, it seems the options are to compromise, which by definition is an alignment, or continue fighting indefinitely. If compromise isn't an option, how do you see this ending? Or do you see some lesser compromise that could work?
  - consumer451 2y ago
    > If compromise isn't an option What the USA is now proposing is not compromise by any definition of the word. The USA is now parroting Kremlin talking points, word for word. Recently when a US official was asked ~"what is Russia giving up?" He was unable to provide an answer. See the map in my other comment here: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=43211923 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=43211923
    - nomel 2y ago
      My understanding has not improved, since the questions weren't addressed. Do you see some lesser "compromise" that could work? Or, do you see any options on the table that don't match the previous borders? How do you see this ending? That map reflects who wants to continue the war and who doesn't, not anything about the specifics of a possible compromise. A proposal of the agreement does not exist at the moment, so we can only speculate what it might include.
      - consumer451 2y ago
        > That map reflects who wants to continue the war and who doesn't No, it does not. It's a map of countries which actively deny that Russia is to blame for their invasion of Ukraine. Sitting out the vote was an option. Ideally, I see this war ending by Russia facing internal economic collapse. There were many indications showing that this was a real possibility. That seems much less likely now that they have a partner in Washington.
        nomel 2y ago
        It appears they have a well functioning war economy [1]: > Despite all of this, Russia’s economy has not collapsed. But it does look very different, and is now entirely focused on a long war in Ukraine – which is actually driving economic growth. > In fact, the IMF expects Russia to experience GDP growth of 2.6% this year. That’s significantly more than the UK (0.6%) and the EU (0.9%). Similarly, Russia’s budget deficit (the amount the government needs to borrow) is on track to remain below 1% of GDP, compared to 5.1% in the UK and 2.8% in the EU. What signs do you see? [1] https://theconversation.com/russias-economy-is-now-completely-driven-by-the-war-in-ukraine-it-cannot-afford-to-lose-but-nor-can-it-afford-to-win-221333 https://theconversation.com/russias-economy-is-now-completel...
        consumer451 2y ago
        > The first signs appeared at the end of 2024. The ruble has weakened, with the Russian currency having lost more than half of its value against the US dollar and the euro, according to a recent analysis by the Kyiv School of Economics. International sanctions on Russian financial institutions played a critical part in this devaluation. In addition, according to the Kyiv School of Economics, Russian oil exports “dropped to $64.40 per barrel” at the end of 2024 (exports were initially $70 per barrel). This suggests that the Russian government is generating less revenue from oil sales. > Rising inflation is causing concerns in Russia, too. In his annual televised question-and-answer session last month, Russian President Vladimir Putin said that inflation is a problem and that the Russian economy is “overheating.” He acknowledged that the price of goods has increased, but he attempted to counter this by saying that wages for Russian citizens have also increased. He then concluded that the Russian Central Bank was working to adjust its benchmark to address rising inflation. > Putin’s points on inflation were telling. The Russian leader seldom discusses problems pertaining to Russian society. Thus, the fact that he felt the need to acknowledge inflation as a serious issue suggests that something greater is afoot. [0] To further answer your original question, less ideally would be a settlement where the EU and Ukraine are both parties to the negotiation. I am not sure what role the US has at this table, tbh. Full withdrawal from support of Ukraine, and NATO withdrawal appears imminent in any case. A settlement like that might look like: What Russia gets: Their territory back in Kursk Oblast The end of sanctions A significant portion of Ukrainian territory What Ukraine gets: Some contested territory back All, or nearly all EU held Russian funds for rebuilding the incredible amount of destruction from Russian assault Permanent stationing of military in Ukraine from a new EU coalition of the willing. (NATO is over, that discussion is pointless) [0] https://www.atlanticcouncil.org/blogs/new-atlanticist/is-2025-the-year-that-russias-economy-finally-freezes-up-under-sanctions/ https://www.atlanticcouncil.org/blogs/new-atlanticist/is-202...
drawkward 2y ago
Nothing like being stuck betweentwo hegemons to galvanize a continent. As an American: I stand with Europe.
- bufferoverflow 2y ago
  Move there, see how it actually is. I spent almost a decade there. I prefer USA, it's not even close.
  - drawkward 2y ago
    ...how it actually is? What do you mean?
    - bufferoverflow 2y ago
      You have to experience it. Living and working in Europe. Do it for a few years. Then see what you prefer.
      - drawkward 2y ago
        This is not a convincing argument. It tells me nothing about why I should not stand with Europe, rather than American isolationism and pro-Putinism. It doesnt even support your own claim about how Europe "actually" is. Wtf does that even mean. >Europe is sooooooo actually. What??? What does that mean? >Idk man you just have to know how actually Europe is. Though I have not lived in Europe, I have traveled there frequently and hold EU citizenship and I cant fathom what you are saying except your prefrence for America, but not why you prefer it.
foldr 2y ago
Although the analogy between European nation states and US states is very weak, it's hard to resist pointing out that different parts of the US are also not aligned on politics.
cbg0 2y ago
The EU doesn't need to align on all politics. Defense is defense and everybody understands the value of that.

That is not the vibe that I'm feeling over here at all. The USA aligning with Russia was a major wake up call here, and it is leading to solidarity the likes of which I've never seen. For example: https://old.reddit.com/r/europe/comments/1irgt3n/german_chancellor_candidate_who_is_likely_to_win/ https://old.reddit.com/r/europe/comments/1irgt3n/german_chan...

bufferoverflow 2y ago
Now do Hungary. Or Slovakia.
- deleted 2y ago
  [deleted]
nomel 2y ago
> The USA aligning with Russia I keep seeing this sentiment, but I'm having trouble understanding it, especially since the terms of whatever possible agreement are not set. To me, it seems the options are to compromise, which by definition is an alignment, or continue fighting indefinitely. If compromise isn't an option, how do you see this ending? Or do you see some lesser compromise that could work?
- consumer451 2y ago
  > If compromise isn't an option What the USA is now proposing is not compromise by any definition of the word. The USA is now parroting Kremlin talking points, word for word. Recently when a US official was asked ~"what is Russia giving up?" He was unable to provide an answer. See the map in my other comment here: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=43211923 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=43211923
  - nomel 2y ago
    My understanding has not improved, since the questions weren't addressed. Do you see some lesser "compromise" that could work? Or, do you see any options on the table that don't match the previous borders? How do you see this ending? That map reflects who wants to continue the war and who doesn't, not anything about the specifics of a possible compromise. A proposal of the agreement does not exist at the moment, so we can only speculate what it might include.
    - consumer451 2y ago
      > That map reflects who wants to continue the war and who doesn't No, it does not. It's a map of countries which actively deny that Russia is to blame for their invasion of Ukraine. Sitting out the vote was an option. Ideally, I see this war ending by Russia facing internal economic collapse. There were many indications showing that this was a real possibility. That seems much less likely now that they have a partner in Washington.
      - nomel 2y ago
        It appears they have a well functioning war economy [1]: > Despite all of this, Russia’s economy has not collapsed. But it does look very different, and is now entirely focused on a long war in Ukraine – which is actually driving economic growth. > In fact, the IMF expects Russia to experience GDP growth of 2.6% this year. That’s significantly more than the UK (0.6%) and the EU (0.9%). Similarly, Russia’s budget deficit (the amount the government needs to borrow) is on track to remain below 1% of GDP, compared to 5.1% in the UK and 2.8% in the EU. What signs do you see? [1] https://theconversation.com/russias-economy-is-now-completely-driven-by-the-war-in-ukraine-it-cannot-afford-to-lose-but-nor-can-it-afford-to-win-221333 https://theconversation.com/russias-economy-is-now-completel...
        consumer451 2y ago
        > The first signs appeared at the end of 2024. The ruble has weakened, with the Russian currency having lost more than half of its value against the US dollar and the euro, according to a recent analysis by the Kyiv School of Economics. International sanctions on Russian financial institutions played a critical part in this devaluation. In addition, according to the Kyiv School of Economics, Russian oil exports “dropped to $64.40 per barrel” at the end of 2024 (exports were initially $70 per barrel). This suggests that the Russian government is generating less revenue from oil sales. > Rising inflation is causing concerns in Russia, too. In his annual televised question-and-answer session last month, Russian President Vladimir Putin said that inflation is a problem and that the Russian economy is “overheating.” He acknowledged that the price of goods has increased, but he attempted to counter this by saying that wages for Russian citizens have also increased. He then concluded that the Russian Central Bank was working to adjust its benchmark to address rising inflation. > Putin’s points on inflation were telling. The Russian leader seldom discusses problems pertaining to Russian society. Thus, the fact that he felt the need to acknowledge inflation as a serious issue suggests that something greater is afoot. [0] To further answer your original question, less ideally would be a settlement where the EU and Ukraine are both parties to the negotiation. I am not sure what role the US has at this table, tbh. Full withdrawal from support of Ukraine, and NATO withdrawal appears imminent in any case. A settlement like that might look like: What Russia gets: Their territory back in Kursk Oblast The end of sanctions A significant portion of Ukrainian territory What Ukraine gets: Some contested territory back All, or nearly all EU held Russian funds for rebuilding the incredible amount of destruction from Russian assault Permanent stationing of military in Ukraine from a new EU coalition of the willing. (NATO is over, that discussion is pointless) [0] https://www.atlanticcouncil.org/blogs/new-atlanticist/is-2025-the-year-that-russias-economy-finally-freezes-up-under-sanctions/ https://www.atlanticcouncil.org/blogs/new-atlanticist/is-202...

drawkward 2y ago

Nothing like being stuck betweentwo hegemons to galvanize a continent. As an American: I stand with Europe.

bufferoverflow 2y ago
Move there, see how it actually is. I spent almost a decade there. I prefer USA, it's not even close.
- drawkward 2y ago
  ...how it actually is? What do you mean?
  - bufferoverflow 2y ago
    You have to experience it. Living and working in Europe. Do it for a few years. Then see what you prefer.
    - drawkward 2y ago
      This is not a convincing argument. It tells me nothing about why I should not stand with Europe, rather than American isolationism and pro-Putinism. It doesnt even support your own claim about how Europe "actually" is. Wtf does that even mean. >Europe is sooooooo actually. What??? What does that mean? >Idk man you just have to know how actually Europe is. Though I have not lived in Europe, I have traveled there frequently and hold EU citizenship and I cant fathom what you are saying except your prefrence for America, but not why you prefer it.

foldr 2y ago

Although the analogy between European nation states and US states is very weak, it's hard to resist pointing out that different parts of the US are also not aligned on politics.

cbg0 2y ago

The EU doesn't need to align on all politics. Defense is defense and everybody understands the value of that.