7 ms·

At this point that sounds like a good deal. Also pull everything out of Europe and make NATO worthless.

simmerup 2y ago
In return we can replace all the McDonalds and KFCs with European alternatives, and kick out Meta and the rest of the tech imperialism. Don't pretend America gets nothing out of its role as global hegemon.
consumer451 2y ago
From the ashes of the fall of Pax Americana will rise Pax Europa.
- bufferoverflow 2y ago
  Not going to happen. EU has its own massive problems. And the countries are not aligned on the politics at all.
  - consumer451 2y ago
    That is not the vibe that I'm feeling over here at all. The USA aligning with Russia was a major wake up call here, and it is leading to solidarity the likes of which I've never seen. For example: https://old.reddit.com/r/europe/comments/1irgt3n/german_chancellor_candidate_who_is_likely_to_win/ https://old.reddit.com/r/europe/comments/1irgt3n/german_chan...
    - bufferoverflow 2y ago
      Now do Hungary. Or Slovakia.
      - deleted 2y ago
        [deleted]
    - nomel 2y ago
      > The USA aligning with Russia I keep seeing this sentiment, but I'm having trouble understanding it, especially since the terms of whatever possible agreement are not set. To me, it seems the options are to compromise, which by definition is an alignment, or continue fighting indefinitely. If compromise isn't an option, how do you see this ending? Or do you see some lesser compromise that could work?
      - consumer451 2y ago
        > If compromise isn't an option What the USA is now proposing is not compromise by any definition of the word. The USA is now parroting Kremlin talking points, word for word. Recently when a US official was asked ~"what is Russia giving up?" He was unable to provide an answer. See the map in my other comment here: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=43211923 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=43211923
        nomel 2y ago
        My understanding has not improved, since the questions weren't addressed. Do you see some lesser "compromise" that could work? Or, do you see any options on the table that don't match the previous borders? How do you see this ending? That map reflects who wants to continue the war and who doesn't, not anything about the specifics of a possible compromise. A proposal of the agreement does not exist at the moment, so we can only speculate what it might include.
        consumer451 2y ago
        > That map reflects who wants to continue the war and who doesn't No, it does not. It's a map of countries which actively deny that Russia is to blame for their invasion of Ukraine. Sitting out the vote was an option. Ideally, I see this war ending by Russia facing internal economic collapse. There were many indications showing that this was a real possibility. That seems much less likely now that they have a partner in Washington.
        2y ago
  - drawkward 2y ago
    Nothing like being stuck betweentwo hegemons to galvanize a continent. As an American: I stand with Europe.
    - bufferoverflow 2y ago
      Move there, see how it actually is. I spent almost a decade there. I prefer USA, it's not even close.
      - drawkward 2y ago
        ...how it actually is? What do you mean?
        bufferoverflow 2y ago
        You have to experience it. Living and working in Europe. Do it for a few years. Then see what you prefer.
        drawkward 2y ago
        This is not a convincing argument. It tells me nothing about why I should not stand with Europe, rather than American isolationism and pro-Putinism. It doesnt even support your own claim about how Europe "actually" is. Wtf does that even mean. >Europe is sooooooo actually. What??? What does that mean? >Idk man you just have to know how actually Europe is. Though I have not lived in Europe, I have traveled there frequently and hold EU citizenship and I cant fathom what you are saying except your prefrence for America, but not why you prefer it.
  - foldr 2y ago
    Although the analogy between European nation states and US states is very weak, it's hard to resist pointing out that different parts of the US are also not aligned on politics.
  - cbg0 2y ago
    The EU doesn't need to align on all politics. Defense is defense and everybody understands the value of that.
- jandrese 2y ago
  I think you mean Pax China. China is already making big headway into countries where the US support has been flagging and leaving a power vacuum.
- barrenko 2y ago
  The only thing that matters is that Ukraine keeps fighting. And I think they will. EU will have another 10 "emergency" meetings, after which they will publish a memo that we are in a state of emergency. What I'm hoping for is more direct involvement from France + new German leadership.
  - akmarinov 2y ago
    With no security guarantees, It’s either continue to fight or be annexed by Russia and drafted first a couple of years down the line to attack Poland/Romania/Moldova
- xandrius 2y ago
  Technically that would be "Pax Europeaus", Europa is the noun.

In return we can replace all the McDonalds and KFCs with European alternatives, and kick out Meta and the rest of the tech imperialism. Don't pretend America gets nothing out of its role as global hegemon.

consumer451 2y ago

From the ashes of the fall of Pax Americana will rise Pax Europa.

bufferoverflow 2y ago
Not going to happen. EU has its own massive problems. And the countries are not aligned on the politics at all.
- consumer451 2y ago
  That is not the vibe that I'm feeling over here at all. The USA aligning with Russia was a major wake up call here, and it is leading to solidarity the likes of which I've never seen. For example: https://old.reddit.com/r/europe/comments/1irgt3n/german_chancellor_candidate_who_is_likely_to_win/ https://old.reddit.com/r/europe/comments/1irgt3n/german_chan...
  - bufferoverflow 2y ago
    Now do Hungary. Or Slovakia.
    - deleted 2y ago
      [deleted]
  - nomel 2y ago
    > The USA aligning with Russia I keep seeing this sentiment, but I'm having trouble understanding it, especially since the terms of whatever possible agreement are not set. To me, it seems the options are to compromise, which by definition is an alignment, or continue fighting indefinitely. If compromise isn't an option, how do you see this ending? Or do you see some lesser compromise that could work?
    - consumer451 2y ago
      > If compromise isn't an option What the USA is now proposing is not compromise by any definition of the word. The USA is now parroting Kremlin talking points, word for word. Recently when a US official was asked ~"what is Russia giving up?" He was unable to provide an answer. See the map in my other comment here: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=43211923 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=43211923
      - nomel 2y ago
        My understanding has not improved, since the questions weren't addressed. Do you see some lesser "compromise" that could work? Or, do you see any options on the table that don't match the previous borders? How do you see this ending? That map reflects who wants to continue the war and who doesn't, not anything about the specifics of a possible compromise. A proposal of the agreement does not exist at the moment, so we can only speculate what it might include.
        consumer451 2y ago
        > That map reflects who wants to continue the war and who doesn't No, it does not. It's a map of countries which actively deny that Russia is to blame for their invasion of Ukraine. Sitting out the vote was an option. Ideally, I see this war ending by Russia facing internal economic collapse. There were many indications showing that this was a real possibility. That seems much less likely now that they have a partner in Washington.
        2y ago
- drawkward 2y ago
  Nothing like being stuck betweentwo hegemons to galvanize a continent. As an American: I stand with Europe.
  - bufferoverflow 2y ago
    Move there, see how it actually is. I spent almost a decade there. I prefer USA, it's not even close.
    - drawkward 2y ago
      ...how it actually is? What do you mean?
      - bufferoverflow 2y ago
        You have to experience it. Living and working in Europe. Do it for a few years. Then see what you prefer.
        drawkward 2y ago
        This is not a convincing argument. It tells me nothing about why I should not stand with Europe, rather than American isolationism and pro-Putinism. It doesnt even support your own claim about how Europe "actually" is. Wtf does that even mean. >Europe is sooooooo actually. What??? What does that mean? >Idk man you just have to know how actually Europe is. Though I have not lived in Europe, I have traveled there frequently and hold EU citizenship and I cant fathom what you are saying except your prefrence for America, but not why you prefer it.
- foldr 2y ago
  Although the analogy between European nation states and US states is very weak, it's hard to resist pointing out that different parts of the US are also not aligned on politics.
- cbg0 2y ago
  The EU doesn't need to align on all politics. Defense is defense and everybody understands the value of that.
jandrese 2y ago
I think you mean Pax China. China is already making big headway into countries where the US support has been flagging and leaving a power vacuum.
barrenko 2y ago
The only thing that matters is that Ukraine keeps fighting. And I think they will. EU will have another 10 "emergency" meetings, after which they will publish a memo that we are in a state of emergency. What I'm hoping for is more direct involvement from France + new German leadership.
- akmarinov 2y ago
  With no security guarantees, It’s either continue to fight or be annexed by Russia and drafted first a couple of years down the line to attack Poland/Romania/Moldova
xandrius 2y ago
Technically that would be "Pax Europeaus", Europa is the noun.