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> Wake up America before it's too late. The time to wake up was 2016. It is already too late. 33% of Americans have their heads in the sand and are believing

by paxys 2y ago

> Wake up America before it's too late. The time to wake up was 2016. It is already too late. 33% of Americans have their heads in the sand and are believing the establishment talking points and amplifying them. 33% know what is going on and are cheering it on. 33% don’t care either way. Hard to say which group is doing more damage to the country tbh.

selykg 2y ago
There are those of us that hate this but have no idea how they can help.
- aparticulate 2y ago
  What specific problem are you looking to solve?
  - sigmarule 2y ago
    Presumably one of the issues being discussed here, such as mitigating the effects of Russia's wildly successful manipulation campaigns that have resulted in both US policy and cultural shifts in favor of Russian interests. To skip some steps in this comment chain, and at risk of being presumptuous, pick an option from this technically-exhaustive list: Do you believe that: 1. Russia has not engaged in misinformation-based influence campaigns targeting US citizens 2. Russia has engaged in such campaigns but to no tangible effect, and they therefore require no response 3. Russia's influence campaigns saw success, but not to the detriment of the US, and they therefore require no response 4. Russia's success harms US interests, but it would be hypocritical to actively respond given the US' past actions 5. Russia's success is tethered to cultural shifts, which are impermanent and therefore don't necessitate an active response 6. Russia's success can only be effectively countered by the gov't, so civilian attempts at helping are futile 7. None of the items above relate to the topic of discussion in this thread, i.e. this comment effectively strawman-ing 8. The above points are non-exhaustive I'm quite sure an intelligent person with an open mind can be convinced that each of the above points is false, save the last one.
    - surfpel 2y ago
      [flagged]
      - sigmarule 2y ago
        Okay, a video attributing fault of the UA crisis to the West. Which of the options I listed are you attempting to back with this source, or put another way, which of my implied claims does this counter? Help me see the relevance. If we rewind the comment chain back to the root, and just consider this video in the context of today's meeting - can you explain how the points made by the video or the general attribution of fault for the crisis lends support to the strategy and conduct displayed earlier today? If you want to talk about whether or not the US is at fault for the war, you're in the wrong thread.
        surfpel 2y ago
        [flagged]
        sigmarule 2y ago
        A world in which this is true is likely still a world where presidents should not be conducting puppet shows.
        surfpel 2y ago
        I 100% agree. I am also deeply dissatisfied with the state of diplomacy. I also think these negotiations should be handled by a strong and independent Europe. Regardless of who is pulling the strings, they should be negotiating and ending conflict, like in the Minsk agreements, which were torn down by the west. In fact, Angela Merkel herself stated in 2022 that the 2014 peace agreements were an attempt to give Ukraine time to militarize and eventually join NATO. https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/what-are-minsk-agreements-ukraine-conflict-2022-02-21/ https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/what-are-minsk-agreemen... https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/putin-says-loss-trust-west-will-make-future-ukraine-talks-harder-2022-12-09/ https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/putin-says-loss-trust-w...
gkoberger 2y ago
I think there's a large portion (let's call it 22.47%... aka the percentage that voted for Kamala) know exactly what's going on, care a ton, and lost the election. And then there's a large percentage for whom this whole thing just feels futile. It's not that they don't care, but they dislike Trump and feel like Democrats are unable/unwilling to rise to the occasion. (After all, 4 years later, Democrats just fired up the republican base and did nothing to protect Americans)
- steve_adams_86 2y ago
  > (let's call it 22.47%... aka the percentage that voted for Kamala) know exactly what's going on I thought like this but I've come to realize that a lot of Harris voters were suffering from illusions about the likely efficacy of the government she would form. Regardless of her own competence, the democratic party has serious issues, and not many Harris supporters were being honest (if they were aware) about this until well after they lost the election. I think it's dangerous to think her voters know what's really going on. The issues are genuinely country-wide and not specific only to republicans. More level-headed republicans are right about a lot of problems in the USA. They want government efficiency for good reasons. Is DOGE the right solution? Absolutely not, it's insane. But these people are happy to see certain initiatives because they're overdue, and they're not wrong about that. Free speech for example; that has become a bit more dodgy over the years. The western world is beginning to press on freedom of speech in subtle ways (especially in the UK), and a lot of republicans care (they should!) but virtually no democrats I know care. I know the current administration (or X.com) is implementing the worst versions of these things, I don't support it at all, but my point is: there is good sense on both sides, yet also total nonsense on both sides. That's my take from here in Canada, at least.
  - l0t0b0r0s 2y ago
    I would opine that the people who wanted to elect a courtesan do not, infact, know exactly whats going on.
blacksqr 2y ago
Been saying since the Clinton years that the American electorate is a three-way split between the stupid, the crazy and the feckless.
Sohcahtoa82 2y ago
I think a lot of Americans are truly taking the "both sides are bad" stance and thinking that it makes them superior and choose not to vote. I think they're actively harmful. "Both sides are bad" is a thought-ending cliche.
- WorldPeas 2y ago
  "God, grant me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change, courage to change the things I can, and wisdom to know the difference."

by paxys 2y ago

selykg 2y ago

There are those of us that hate this but have no idea how they can help.

aparticulate 2y ago
What specific problem are you looking to solve?
- sigmarule 2y ago
  Presumably one of the issues being discussed here, such as mitigating the effects of Russia's wildly successful manipulation campaigns that have resulted in both US policy and cultural shifts in favor of Russian interests. To skip some steps in this comment chain, and at risk of being presumptuous, pick an option from this technically-exhaustive list: Do you believe that: 1. Russia has not engaged in misinformation-based influence campaigns targeting US citizens 2. Russia has engaged in such campaigns but to no tangible effect, and they therefore require no response 3. Russia's influence campaigns saw success, but not to the detriment of the US, and they therefore require no response 4. Russia's success harms US interests, but it would be hypocritical to actively respond given the US' past actions 5. Russia's success is tethered to cultural shifts, which are impermanent and therefore don't necessitate an active response 6. Russia's success can only be effectively countered by the gov't, so civilian attempts at helping are futile 7. None of the items above relate to the topic of discussion in this thread, i.e. this comment effectively strawman-ing 8. The above points are non-exhaustive I'm quite sure an intelligent person with an open mind can be convinced that each of the above points is false, save the last one.
  - surfpel 2y ago
    [flagged]
    - sigmarule 2y ago
      Okay, a video attributing fault of the UA crisis to the West. Which of the options I listed are you attempting to back with this source, or put another way, which of my implied claims does this counter? Help me see the relevance. If we rewind the comment chain back to the root, and just consider this video in the context of today's meeting - can you explain how the points made by the video or the general attribution of fault for the crisis lends support to the strategy and conduct displayed earlier today? If you want to talk about whether or not the US is at fault for the war, you're in the wrong thread.
      - surfpel 2y ago
        [flagged]
        sigmarule 2y ago
        A world in which this is true is likely still a world where presidents should not be conducting puppet shows.
        surfpel 2y ago
        I 100% agree. I am also deeply dissatisfied with the state of diplomacy. I also think these negotiations should be handled by a strong and independent Europe. Regardless of who is pulling the strings, they should be negotiating and ending conflict, like in the Minsk agreements, which were torn down by the west. In fact, Angela Merkel herself stated in 2022 that the 2014 peace agreements were an attempt to give Ukraine time to militarize and eventually join NATO. https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/what-are-minsk-agreements-ukraine-conflict-2022-02-21/ https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/what-are-minsk-agreemen... https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/putin-says-loss-trust-west-will-make-future-ukraine-talks-harder-2022-12-09/ https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/putin-says-loss-trust-w...

gkoberger 2y ago

I think there's a large portion (let's call it 22.47%... aka the percentage that voted for Kamala) know exactly what's going on, care a ton, and lost the election. And then there's a large percentage for whom this whole thing just feels futile. It's not that they don't care, but they dislike Trump and feel like Democrats are unable/unwilling to rise to the occasion. (After all, 4 years later, Democrats just fired up the republican base and did nothing to protect Americans)

steve_adams_86 2y ago
> (let's call it 22.47%... aka the percentage that voted for Kamala) know exactly what's going on I thought like this but I've come to realize that a lot of Harris voters were suffering from illusions about the likely efficacy of the government she would form. Regardless of her own competence, the democratic party has serious issues, and not many Harris supporters were being honest (if they were aware) about this until well after they lost the election. I think it's dangerous to think her voters know what's really going on. The issues are genuinely country-wide and not specific only to republicans. More level-headed republicans are right about a lot of problems in the USA. They want government efficiency for good reasons. Is DOGE the right solution? Absolutely not, it's insane. But these people are happy to see certain initiatives because they're overdue, and they're not wrong about that. Free speech for example; that has become a bit more dodgy over the years. The western world is beginning to press on freedom of speech in subtle ways (especially in the UK), and a lot of republicans care (they should!) but virtually no democrats I know care. I know the current administration (or X.com) is implementing the worst versions of these things, I don't support it at all, but my point is: there is good sense on both sides, yet also total nonsense on both sides. That's my take from here in Canada, at least.
- l0t0b0r0s 2y ago
  I would opine that the people who wanted to elect a courtesan do not, infact, know exactly whats going on.

blacksqr 2y ago

Been saying since the Clinton years that the American electorate is a three-way split between the stupid, the crazy and the feckless.

Sohcahtoa82 2y ago

I think a lot of Americans are truly taking the "both sides are bad" stance and thinking that it makes them superior and choose not to vote. I think they're actively harmful. "Both sides are bad" is a thought-ending cliche.

WorldPeas 2y ago
"God, grant me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change, courage to change the things I can, and wisdom to know the difference."