7 ms·

The joke is on them. The one's humiliated on the global scale are the ones who are lying through their teeth with less than zero class.

PartiallyTyped 2y ago
I don't think the US is "too big to fall", and the US seems to have taken that road.
nickmp 2y ago
But will the American people see what the rest of the world sees, or will they continue supporting Trump and Vance?
- dctoedt 2y ago
  > But will the American people see what the rest of the world sees, or will they continue supporting Trump and Vance? Attributed to (the half-American) Winston Churchill: "The American people can be counted on to do the right thing — after they've exhausted all other possibilities."
  - deleted 2y ago
    [deleted]
  - technothrasher 2y ago
    It is consistently misattributed to Churchill and misquoted to be about Americans. The quote is actually from Abba Eban, and what he said was, "History teaches us that men and nations behave wisely once they have exhausted all other alternatives."
- insane_dreamer 2y ago
  I honestly don't think there's anything Trump could do to lose the support of his MAGA base. There have been so many times when I've said "surely they'll see what he is now" only to be mistaken. It's truly a cult.
  - dctoedt 2y ago
    > I honestly don't think there's anything Trump could do to lose the support of his MAGA base. We have ample precedent: Germany in 1945.
    - p_ing 2y ago
      Some of that base of support already wears lightning stripes. Many other's sport the brown shirts.
    - insane_dreamer 2y ago
      Hopefully it doesn't take our cities being bombed into the ground for them to wake up.
  - EasyMark 2y ago
    Right, short of his actions resulting in them being fired, losing medicare or other direct impact, there is no way they will change course, they are too deep in to the grift.
    - FireBeyond 2y ago
      That assumes that Trump, Musk and the right wing media won't spin that as Biden's fault, and that Trump is "working on something better". They will, and they will believe him.
  - dh2022 2y ago
    Trump and MAGA people are really 'till death do us part..... The people that suffered the most from the first Trump administration are the white republicans: they died because they did not want to be vaccinated against COVID nor wear masks. In 2024 white republicans voted for Trump even though they were personally hurt by Trump's COVID advice. One of my friends is a Trump supporter who almost died of COVID (he got intubated!!). His wife also got COVID. Never you mind: both of them voted for Trump in 2024.
- EasyMark 2y ago
  you are greatly overstimating it 33% oppose him entirely, 33% don't care, 33% cultishly adhere to whatever he says; 1% pull the strings
  - rcpt 2y ago
    The "don't care" continues to baffle me
    - Rury 2y ago
      Some people only care about simple stuff. You know like partying or having fun? US Government being a shit show? War stuff happening halfway across the planet? Some people don't care about that. They don't care if the government they are in is a democracy or a dictatorship. Some people just want to smoke weed everyday, play video games, fish, travel, spend time with family, or get laid... If the current government (whatever shape or form it is) isn't preventing them from doing what it is they want to do, then they don't really care. And reality is, there's a lot of such folks who's pursuits are rather unaffected by the current state of affairs, even if they're large amounts who are. You might think that they should care, and reasonably so, but fact is, some won't until it actually is (too late).
    - GiorgioG 2y ago
      They’re too busy figuring out how to pay their bills to worry about the future of the country.
e40 2y ago
I think it was disgusting what Trump and Vance did, but I don't believe for a second that everyone will view it that way. The 40% that voted for them will view this as an ass whooping Trump/Vance gave Zelensky. They're all in on the grift, there's no reason this will turn them off. Now, if SS or Medicaid is gutted... that will be the turning point for this admin.
- koolba 2y ago
  I’m in that 40% and I think today was fantastic. It lets people see what these things are really like. Zelensky came to the USA to sign an already agreed-to minerals deal that would have (eventually) paid back the billions of dollars they’ve received. There were no additional security guarantees. No further agreements. This was back pay. And it was agreed to before he left Ukraine. He reneged, got called out for demanding further security guarantees, thought he could bluff them into agreeing to more, and summarily got his ass handed to him on live TV. Trump is not the one that tried to change the deal. The real moment of the day was when Trump asked him point blank if he even wants a ceasefire. And he couldn’t say yes. You can’t end a war diplomatically if there’s no will to stop fighting and accept peace. For lack of a better term, Ukraine is in a shit position. Billions more dollars will not change that, it will just cost more blood. If people think the situation and accepting the current positions is bad now, just wait to see how bad it will be when the USA weapons spigot gets turned off.
  - Hammershaft 2y ago
    Considering America signed the Budapest Memorandum pledging to assure security in Ukraine in exchange for Ukraine to hand over its nuclear weapons to Russia... all this is going to do is spur countries no longer reliably protected by the US to develop their own nuclear weapons. I think the risk of nuclear war in the future just went up.
  - rnentjes 2y ago
    Diplomacy has been tried multiple times before, even with security guarantees from the usa. Still Putin invaded. There can not be lasting peace without actual guarantees (for which use is not even a trustworthy party anymore). Because Putin will rebuild and invade again as he did after the last time. This is what Zelensky tried to explain to Vance before the discussion blew up.
sandclock 2y ago
[flagged]

PartiallyTyped 2y ago

I don't think the US is "too big to fall", and the US seems to have taken that road.

nickmp 2y ago

But will the American people see what the rest of the world sees, or will they continue supporting Trump and Vance?

dctoedt 2y ago
> But will the American people see what the rest of the world sees, or will they continue supporting Trump and Vance? Attributed to (the half-American) Winston Churchill: "The American people can be counted on to do the right thing — after they've exhausted all other possibilities."
- deleted 2y ago
  [deleted]
- technothrasher 2y ago
  It is consistently misattributed to Churchill and misquoted to be about Americans. The quote is actually from Abba Eban, and what he said was, "History teaches us that men and nations behave wisely once they have exhausted all other alternatives."
insane_dreamer 2y ago
I honestly don't think there's anything Trump could do to lose the support of his MAGA base. There have been so many times when I've said "surely they'll see what he is now" only to be mistaken. It's truly a cult.
- dctoedt 2y ago
  > I honestly don't think there's anything Trump could do to lose the support of his MAGA base. We have ample precedent: Germany in 1945.
  - p_ing 2y ago
    Some of that base of support already wears lightning stripes. Many other's sport the brown shirts.
  - insane_dreamer 2y ago
    Hopefully it doesn't take our cities being bombed into the ground for them to wake up.
- EasyMark 2y ago
  Right, short of his actions resulting in them being fired, losing medicare or other direct impact, there is no way they will change course, they are too deep in to the grift.
  - FireBeyond 2y ago
    That assumes that Trump, Musk and the right wing media won't spin that as Biden's fault, and that Trump is "working on something better". They will, and they will believe him.
- dh2022 2y ago
  Trump and MAGA people are really 'till death do us part..... The people that suffered the most from the first Trump administration are the white republicans: they died because they did not want to be vaccinated against COVID nor wear masks. In 2024 white republicans voted for Trump even though they were personally hurt by Trump's COVID advice. One of my friends is a Trump supporter who almost died of COVID (he got intubated!!). His wife also got COVID. Never you mind: both of them voted for Trump in 2024.
EasyMark 2y ago
you are greatly overstimating it 33% oppose him entirely, 33% don't care, 33% cultishly adhere to whatever he says; 1% pull the strings
- rcpt 2y ago
  The "don't care" continues to baffle me
  - Rury 2y ago
    Some people only care about simple stuff. You know like partying or having fun? US Government being a shit show? War stuff happening halfway across the planet? Some people don't care about that. They don't care if the government they are in is a democracy or a dictatorship. Some people just want to smoke weed everyday, play video games, fish, travel, spend time with family, or get laid... If the current government (whatever shape or form it is) isn't preventing them from doing what it is they want to do, then they don't really care. And reality is, there's a lot of such folks who's pursuits are rather unaffected by the current state of affairs, even if they're large amounts who are. You might think that they should care, and reasonably so, but fact is, some won't until it actually is (too late).
  - GiorgioG 2y ago
    They’re too busy figuring out how to pay their bills to worry about the future of the country.

e40 2y ago

I think it was disgusting what Trump and Vance did, but I don't believe for a second that everyone will view it that way. The 40% that voted for them will view this as an ass whooping Trump/Vance gave Zelensky. They're all in on the grift, there's no reason this will turn them off. Now, if SS or Medicaid is gutted... that will be the turning point for this admin.

koolba 2y ago
I’m in that 40% and I think today was fantastic. It lets people see what these things are really like. Zelensky came to the USA to sign an already agreed-to minerals deal that would have (eventually) paid back the billions of dollars they’ve received. There were no additional security guarantees. No further agreements. This was back pay. And it was agreed to before he left Ukraine. He reneged, got called out for demanding further security guarantees, thought he could bluff them into agreeing to more, and summarily got his ass handed to him on live TV. Trump is not the one that tried to change the deal. The real moment of the day was when Trump asked him point blank if he even wants a ceasefire. And he couldn’t say yes. You can’t end a war diplomatically if there’s no will to stop fighting and accept peace. For lack of a better term, Ukraine is in a shit position. Billions more dollars will not change that, it will just cost more blood. If people think the situation and accepting the current positions is bad now, just wait to see how bad it will be when the USA weapons spigot gets turned off.
- Hammershaft 2y ago
  Considering America signed the Budapest Memorandum pledging to assure security in Ukraine in exchange for Ukraine to hand over its nuclear weapons to Russia... all this is going to do is spur countries no longer reliably protected by the US to develop their own nuclear weapons. I think the risk of nuclear war in the future just went up.
- rnentjes 2y ago
  Diplomacy has been tried multiple times before, even with security guarantees from the usa. Still Putin invaded. There can not be lasting peace without actual guarantees (for which use is not even a trustworthy party anymore). Because Putin will rebuild and invade again as he did after the last time. This is what Zelensky tried to explain to Vance before the discussion blew up.

sandclock 2y ago

[flagged]