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In what way is it in my interest to give hundreds of billions of my nation's money toward fighting an unwinnable conflict on the other side of the world over wh

In what way is it in my interest to give hundreds of billions of my nation's money toward fighting an unwinnable conflict on the other side of the world over which corrupt sex trafficking organization will control a small plot of land? The Cold War propaganda derangement that still exists in the minds of certain people is insane.

bongodongobob 2y ago
Because you want the world to trust that the US won't turn their backs on agreements especially when it involves a country giving up their nukes. Which would have helped protect them.
- soerxpso 2y ago
  Nobody in the US voted for that agreement. I want the world to notice that they need to stop treating my people like daddy's credit card. It's a shame that the previous occupying regime hated its constituents enough to make these insane agreements to try and loot us, but we definitely don't need to stick to them now just because of that.
  - threeseed 2y ago
    You don’t vote for any policy or action. You vote for Presidents and politicians who act on your behalf.
  - nuancebydefault 2y ago
    So now just loot Ukraine, a country weakened by war. And blame their president in stead of the agressor. Oh and 'he said bad but unfortunately true things over the phone' so let's humiliate him in my only language while he's asking for help in his third language.
  - _DeadFred_ 2y ago
    Yes, in the USA we vote for representatives who then make agreements on our behalf. That we don't have direct democracy on every level does not make our process undemocratic, and does not make all of our agreements null and void. I want my people to keep their basic agreements and promises so that the rest of the world continues to trust our dollar as a reserve currency and our stock market as a safe place to invest.
    - soerxpso 2y ago
      > I want my people to keep their basic agreements and promises I didn't agree to send anything to Ukraine; there is no agreement to keep. Maybe we should just raise taxes on you people who voted for it and send your money if you're so insistent. Go to the front lines, even, if you'd like. I don't support either of the two corrupt oligarchies in this fight and you have no right to bring the other half of the country in it, especially now that you were voted out.
      - _DeadFred_ 2y ago
        So you don't believe in society? Or only a society with direct democracy has legitimacy? That's the philosophy of a spoiled selfish child. You believe every agreement out country makes should reset every 4 years? That the recipe for zero legitimacy in the world and especially isn't going to keep our position in the world. I have EVERY RIGHT to argue that the USA should honors it's obligations, I have morals and honor unlike people who don't believe obligations they don't like should be honored if they can justify weaseling out of them.
  - anigbrowl 2y ago
    What 'previous occupying regime'? You are not making much sense.
jonathanstrange 2y ago
The USSR never acted even half as hostile as Russia is acting towards the whole world, including the US and UK right now. Maybe you're not aware of that but Russian state TV routinely discusses the nuclear annihilation of the UK and the US, not just that of Europe. Current rhetoric from the Kremlin is way more hostile than it ever was during Cold War. You better put a stop to that by showing strength. Unless you want ignore history, that is.
- soerxpso 2y ago
  The claim you're making is ludicrous. We don't show strength by giving away all of our resources on pointless conflicts that don't involve us. Even if the USSR was as nice as you pretend, Ukraine was also part of the USSR, and is being just as hostile to American interests.
  - jonathanstrange 2y ago
    Then your government needs to shut up instead of undermining the efforts of the rest of the free world to save Ukraine. However, it is worth noting that from a geopolitical perspective you're the one who is ludicrous.
    - soerxpso 2y ago
      That's literally what we're doing. Zelensky came to beg for more money, and we're shutting up. I don't really care if Europeans want to go die pointlessly on the frontlines for some reason.
      - jonathanstrange 2y ago
        No, unfortunately you're not shutting up. Your government is currently pursuing a crazy pro Russia agenda.
  - zeroCalories 2y ago
    We're not giving away all our resources lmao. Support for Ukraine is a relatively small part of our budget and gdp. In return for this we get to significantly weaken and discourage our enemies. For every dollar that we pour in, Russia is losing many more. Iran and China's imperialist ambitions are crushed. And none of our people even needed to die for it. You're either a fool or an enemy if you don't see why we should support Ukraine.
bartekpacia 2y ago
You don't understand anything.
_fs 2y ago
> give hundreds of billions of my nation's money 30% of the US aid goes to ukraine for immediate local purposes, think humanitarian and and economic relief, the other 70% goes to us defense manufacturers, directly supporting american companies who then send their stock of weapons to ukraine. This 70% that goes directly to US companies is counted in the total aid provided
- soerxpso 2y ago
  I can think of a hundred things we could have US defense contractors make instead. And it's surprising how quickly Democrats have begun worshiping the Military Industrial Complex. As recently as Bush, it was the boogeyman. Now I'm supposed to support shoveling money into it to burn? Why don't we spend $100B on having American workers build high-speed rail instead, or anything else more useful than drawing out an unwinnable conflict? All that would be purchased with this money is a lot more dead Ukrainians before it's over.
  - JohnBooty 2y ago
    This is severe whataboutism. I'm not a fan of the MIC, and much money given to it could be better spent on other things. But the reality is that money poured into the MIC to replace equipment we sent to Ukraine is not money that leaves the US economy, and it is absolutely essential to understand that when discussing the "cost" of this war to America.
  - fatbird 2y ago
    It's clearly not unwinnable. Russia is doing serious structural damage to its economy and can't get enough Russians to fight, so they're pulling North Koreans in (who think they're going to fight South Korea). At worst (for Ukraine), Russia is piling up dead bodies at a 2:1 ratio, and in the process Ukraine is now the world's leading drone combatant. And all the whining that Trump has done about Europe not pulling its weight, is going to be answered with Europe now understanding that US aid is over and they're all publicly pledging to step in. And the US has more than enough money to build high speed rail and continue or double its support for Ukraine. Available money isn't the problem. The US has cleared out vast reserves of older armaments that they no longer have to pay to warehouse or retire safely. Besides most of that aid money going into American pockets, the inventory has been cycled for America's benefit. If the US had chosen to be a steadfast ally and actually help Ukraine win, it could have reaped the same rewards it received after WW2 once Ukraine won: rebuild it as a bastion of capitalism and democracy and let the rising tide lift all boats, especially the leader's. Instead, you're walking away, destroying NATO and transatlantic co-operation in the process. And by doing so, you're making Europe independent of the US, when dependency on the US was the cornerstone of 80 years of peace in Europe as well as a strong world economy. Congratulations on kissing goodbye the very thing that's made America so wealthy and strong for the last 80 years.
sjsdaiuasgdia 2y ago
If you don't stand up to bullies like Putin, they continue to act as bullies. You cannot appease a bully. They will take what you gave them and then return to bullying you.
krelian 2y ago
Exhibit A for level one thinking.
titzer 2y ago
"In what way is it in my interest to give millions of my nation's money away to this filthy and corrupt justice system in an unwinnable fight against crime? I mean whether some mostly harmless serial killer offs two or three more people in southern Nebraska is none of my business--I can't possibly see how anything of this is connected or how it could ever affect me."
Panoramix 2y ago
Besides all the good responses you already got demolishing this point of view, there's the direct benefit of testing all sorts of military equipment and strategies in an actual armed conflict. Even if you somehow ignore the massive human losses and the morality of the war with Russia invading a peaceful ally, the telemetry the US obtains is insane and well worth the money invested.

bongodongobob 2y ago

Because you want the world to trust that the US won't turn their backs on agreements especially when it involves a country giving up their nukes. Which would have helped protect them.

soerxpso 2y ago
Nobody in the US voted for that agreement. I want the world to notice that they need to stop treating my people like daddy's credit card. It's a shame that the previous occupying regime hated its constituents enough to make these insane agreements to try and loot us, but we definitely don't need to stick to them now just because of that.
- threeseed 2y ago
  You don’t vote for any policy or action. You vote for Presidents and politicians who act on your behalf.
- nuancebydefault 2y ago
  So now just loot Ukraine, a country weakened by war. And blame their president in stead of the agressor. Oh and 'he said bad but unfortunately true things over the phone' so let's humiliate him in my only language while he's asking for help in his third language.
- _DeadFred_ 2y ago
  Yes, in the USA we vote for representatives who then make agreements on our behalf. That we don't have direct democracy on every level does not make our process undemocratic, and does not make all of our agreements null and void. I want my people to keep their basic agreements and promises so that the rest of the world continues to trust our dollar as a reserve currency and our stock market as a safe place to invest.
  - soerxpso 2y ago
    > I want my people to keep their basic agreements and promises I didn't agree to send anything to Ukraine; there is no agreement to keep. Maybe we should just raise taxes on you people who voted for it and send your money if you're so insistent. Go to the front lines, even, if you'd like. I don't support either of the two corrupt oligarchies in this fight and you have no right to bring the other half of the country in it, especially now that you were voted out.
    - _DeadFred_ 2y ago
      So you don't believe in society? Or only a society with direct democracy has legitimacy? That's the philosophy of a spoiled selfish child. You believe every agreement out country makes should reset every 4 years? That the recipe for zero legitimacy in the world and especially isn't going to keep our position in the world. I have EVERY RIGHT to argue that the USA should honors it's obligations, I have morals and honor unlike people who don't believe obligations they don't like should be honored if they can justify weaseling out of them.
- anigbrowl 2y ago
  What 'previous occupying regime'? You are not making much sense.

jonathanstrange 2y ago

The USSR never acted even half as hostile as Russia is acting towards the whole world, including the US and UK right now. Maybe you're not aware of that but Russian state TV routinely discusses the nuclear annihilation of the UK and the US, not just that of Europe. Current rhetoric from the Kremlin is way more hostile than it ever was during Cold War. You better put a stop to that by showing strength. Unless you want ignore history, that is.

soerxpso 2y ago
The claim you're making is ludicrous. We don't show strength by giving away all of our resources on pointless conflicts that don't involve us. Even if the USSR was as nice as you pretend, Ukraine was also part of the USSR, and is being just as hostile to American interests.
- jonathanstrange 2y ago
  Then your government needs to shut up instead of undermining the efforts of the rest of the free world to save Ukraine. However, it is worth noting that from a geopolitical perspective you're the one who is ludicrous.
  - soerxpso 2y ago
    That's literally what we're doing. Zelensky came to beg for more money, and we're shutting up. I don't really care if Europeans want to go die pointlessly on the frontlines for some reason.
    - jonathanstrange 2y ago
      No, unfortunately you're not shutting up. Your government is currently pursuing a crazy pro Russia agenda.
- zeroCalories 2y ago
  We're not giving away all our resources lmao. Support for Ukraine is a relatively small part of our budget and gdp. In return for this we get to significantly weaken and discourage our enemies. For every dollar that we pour in, Russia is losing many more. Iran and China's imperialist ambitions are crushed. And none of our people even needed to die for it. You're either a fool or an enemy if you don't see why we should support Ukraine.

bartekpacia 2y ago

You don't understand anything.

_fs 2y ago

> give hundreds of billions of my nation's money 30% of the US aid goes to ukraine for immediate local purposes, think humanitarian and and economic relief, the other 70% goes to us defense manufacturers, directly supporting american companies who then send their stock of weapons to ukraine. This 70% that goes directly to US companies is counted in the total aid provided

soerxpso 2y ago
I can think of a hundred things we could have US defense contractors make instead. And it's surprising how quickly Democrats have begun worshiping the Military Industrial Complex. As recently as Bush, it was the boogeyman. Now I'm supposed to support shoveling money into it to burn? Why don't we spend $100B on having American workers build high-speed rail instead, or anything else more useful than drawing out an unwinnable conflict? All that would be purchased with this money is a lot more dead Ukrainians before it's over.
- JohnBooty 2y ago
  This is severe whataboutism. I'm not a fan of the MIC, and much money given to it could be better spent on other things. But the reality is that money poured into the MIC to replace equipment we sent to Ukraine is not money that leaves the US economy, and it is absolutely essential to understand that when discussing the "cost" of this war to America.
- fatbird 2y ago
  It's clearly not unwinnable. Russia is doing serious structural damage to its economy and can't get enough Russians to fight, so they're pulling North Koreans in (who think they're going to fight South Korea). At worst (for Ukraine), Russia is piling up dead bodies at a 2:1 ratio, and in the process Ukraine is now the world's leading drone combatant. And all the whining that Trump has done about Europe not pulling its weight, is going to be answered with Europe now understanding that US aid is over and they're all publicly pledging to step in. And the US has more than enough money to build high speed rail and continue or double its support for Ukraine. Available money isn't the problem. The US has cleared out vast reserves of older armaments that they no longer have to pay to warehouse or retire safely. Besides most of that aid money going into American pockets, the inventory has been cycled for America's benefit. If the US had chosen to be a steadfast ally and actually help Ukraine win, it could have reaped the same rewards it received after WW2 once Ukraine won: rebuild it as a bastion of capitalism and democracy and let the rising tide lift all boats, especially the leader's. Instead, you're walking away, destroying NATO and transatlantic co-operation in the process. And by doing so, you're making Europe independent of the US, when dependency on the US was the cornerstone of 80 years of peace in Europe as well as a strong world economy. Congratulations on kissing goodbye the very thing that's made America so wealthy and strong for the last 80 years.

sjsdaiuasgdia 2y ago

If you don't stand up to bullies like Putin, they continue to act as bullies. You cannot appease a bully. They will take what you gave them and then return to bullying you.

krelian 2y ago

Exhibit A for level one thinking.

titzer 2y ago

"In what way is it in my interest to give millions of my nation's money away to this filthy and corrupt justice system in an unwinnable fight against crime? I mean whether some mostly harmless serial killer offs two or three more people in southern Nebraska is none of my business--I can't possibly see how anything of this is connected or how it could ever affect me."

Panoramix 2y ago

Besides all the good responses you already got demolishing this point of view, there's the direct benefit of testing all sorts of military equipment and strategies in an actual armed conflict. Even if you somehow ignore the massive human losses and the morality of the war with Russia invading a peaceful ally, the telemetry the US obtains is insane and well worth the money invested.