4 ms·

No, it is for once representing American interests. Not Ukrainian interests. Not Lockheed Martin’s interest. Americans don’t want to be embroiled in endless wa

by imgabe 2y ago

No, it is for once representing American interests. Not Ukrainian interests. Not Lockheed Martin’s interest. Americans don’t want to be embroiled in endless wars. What is your alternative? Keep sending billions to Ukraine? Send American soldiers to die? What is it you would like to happen? Are you going to die for Ukraine? Are you going to send your kids to die there?

kelnos 2y ago
> Keep sending billions to Ukraine? Yes, absolutely. Ukraine falling to Russia represents a huge threat to the security of Europe. After Ukraine, Putin would likely take Belarus, possibly invade Poland or Finland. A weak Europe, one that is dominated by Russia, would be disastrous to the US, both abroad and at home. It is sad to me that so many Trump supporters are too short-sighted to see this. What we've spent (and could spend going forward) in Ukraine is a teeny tiny price to pay to help ensure this doesn't come to pass. America isn't about freedom anymore, it seems. It's about cozying up to dictators and appeasing them. I was disappointed in my fellow citizens after the 2016 election, but I could kinda understand what was going on. Now I'm just disgusted. > Send American soldiers to die? No, of course not, and this is such a bad-faith argument, as no one is seriously suggesting that.
- imgabe 2y ago
  We are $36 trillion in debt and it is growing by a trillion dollars every 100 days. Continuing to send hundreds of billions to a losing war is a bigger threat to the US. The war will end. Russia will offer concessions that benefit the US. They are not going to steamroll Europe. Europe can step up and contribute to Europe’s defense.
  - amanaplanacanal 2y ago
    Russia will offer concessions that benefit the president and his friends, you mean.
  - sjsdaiuasgdia 2y ago
    People like you in 2014: "We should not push back against Russia's annexation of Crimea. It will allow the war to end. They are not going to invade Ukraine to take other territory."
  - dpc050505 2y ago
    American debt is lucrative as long as you don't alienate the whole world by behaving completely irrationally. The USD being the world's transfer currency means that you can finance debt at the lowest interest rate on the planet and use that debt on more productive investments, which is what the USA's government is doing. There's a reason why the US still has a stellar credit rating. American debt is lucrative and you morons are fucking up your cash cow because you don't understand banking and are willing to let a handful of crypto bros try to accelerate the international monetary system's downfall so that they can try to replace it by some bullshit rug pull coin that doesn't even have the technology to function as global currency.
  - dashundchen 2y ago
    The Republicans in charge now are responsible for a good chunk of that debt. $8 trillion in PPP helicopter money + tax cuts for the wealthy during Trump's term, plus trillions more for Bush's tax cuts and Afghanistan/Iraq warcrimes. And they're looking to double down by giving billionaries trillions more in tax cut while driving up the debt. Trump/Musk/GOP do not actually care about debt or spending, it's a distraction.
  - consteval 2y ago
    The debt will only grow under Republican leadership. Framing this as an economic issue is disingenuous, and we all know it. That debt goes straight into enriching the already rich.
deleted 2y ago
[deleted]
duxup 2y ago
>Americans don’t want to be embroiled in endless wars. We don't want our troops / people embroiled in them, so fighting for freedom by funding others is a good way to do that. Waiting until it comes to your doorstep by nations who have made no qualms that they aren't friendly is a bad choice.
jiggawatts 2y ago
You’re being downvoted, but sadly your opinion is representative of a huge percentage of the population. The part that has a… simple, transactional view of each and every international incident. That’s the most polite way I could express that. The more nuanced view is this: America made a deal with Ukraine: Give up your nuclear weapons in exchange for our protection. They made similar deals with Taiwan, South Korea, and others. Sometimes with signatures on paper, sometimes with threats of “don’t even think about it”. Now they are “all thinking about it”. All of them: the countries with small populations, small armies, inconveniently located next to a larger bully like Russia or China. Here in Australia, the right wing government is prepping us to build nuclear weapons. We’re acquiring nuclear-powered submarines that can launch nuclear tipped cruise missiles and the only thing they’re proposing in the next election is building dozens of nuclear power plants… that they admit will only fulfill maybe 4% of our energy needs… but 100% of our weapons-grade plutonium breeding needs. South Korea and Japan already have the nuclear plants. What do you think they’re planning, now that they all see how worthless American promises are? Especially since yesterday’s(!) events, when Trump was asked about AUKUS, the most important and closest military alliance the US is a part of and he had no idea what it was! This is why even close allies are tooling up for imminent global nuclear conflict. Because America elected a president that famously violates the terms of every contract he’s ever signed. Twice. To make sure everyone got the message.
- anigbrowl 2y ago
  Japan is absolutely thinking about its own nuclear deterrent. The conventional diplomatic wisdom is that they can spin one up rapidly. Like most countries, they're deeply taken aback by the US trashing existing alliances and showing far more rhetorical aggression toward its neighbors than its supposed antagonists. https://www.irsem.fr/media/etude-irsem-93-albessard-japan-en-v2.pdf https://www.irsem.fr/media/etude-irsem-93-albessard-japan-en...
Panoramix 2y ago
You don't seem to understand. All Ukraine wants is a security promise. They could surrender to Putin at any time without giving up to the US all of their resources for generations. They need some help to say, if I sign peace now, what's gonna stop Putin from invading again in 2-3 years with a bigger army? Currently, nothing - so there's no point in surrendering. For background, the US promised to defend Ukraine against any invasion when Ukraine was pushed to get rid of its nukes. Turns out it's not willing to even send American made military equipment.
- imgabe 2y ago
  We sent $350 billion including tons of military equipment. Most of it got stolen. They can’t even account for it.
  - darthrupert 2y ago
    This is probably disinformation. A majority of the Ukraine aid resources from US get spent inside the US so any lost funds or misaccounting would happen there.

by imgabe 2y ago

kelnos 2y ago

> Keep sending billions to Ukraine? Yes, absolutely. Ukraine falling to Russia represents a huge threat to the security of Europe. After Ukraine, Putin would likely take Belarus, possibly invade Poland or Finland. A weak Europe, one that is dominated by Russia, would be disastrous to the US, both abroad and at home. It is sad to me that so many Trump supporters are too short-sighted to see this. What we've spent (and could spend going forward) in Ukraine is a teeny tiny price to pay to help ensure this doesn't come to pass. America isn't about freedom anymore, it seems. It's about cozying up to dictators and appeasing them. I was disappointed in my fellow citizens after the 2016 election, but I could kinda understand what was going on. Now I'm just disgusted. > Send American soldiers to die? No, of course not, and this is such a bad-faith argument, as no one is seriously suggesting that.

imgabe 2y ago
We are $36 trillion in debt and it is growing by a trillion dollars every 100 days. Continuing to send hundreds of billions to a losing war is a bigger threat to the US. The war will end. Russia will offer concessions that benefit the US. They are not going to steamroll Europe. Europe can step up and contribute to Europe’s defense.
- amanaplanacanal 2y ago
  Russia will offer concessions that benefit the president and his friends, you mean.
- sjsdaiuasgdia 2y ago
  People like you in 2014: "We should not push back against Russia's annexation of Crimea. It will allow the war to end. They are not going to invade Ukraine to take other territory."
- dpc050505 2y ago
  American debt is lucrative as long as you don't alienate the whole world by behaving completely irrationally. The USD being the world's transfer currency means that you can finance debt at the lowest interest rate on the planet and use that debt on more productive investments, which is what the USA's government is doing. There's a reason why the US still has a stellar credit rating. American debt is lucrative and you morons are fucking up your cash cow because you don't understand banking and are willing to let a handful of crypto bros try to accelerate the international monetary system's downfall so that they can try to replace it by some bullshit rug pull coin that doesn't even have the technology to function as global currency.
- dashundchen 2y ago
  The Republicans in charge now are responsible for a good chunk of that debt. $8 trillion in PPP helicopter money + tax cuts for the wealthy during Trump's term, plus trillions more for Bush's tax cuts and Afghanistan/Iraq warcrimes. And they're looking to double down by giving billionaries trillions more in tax cut while driving up the debt. Trump/Musk/GOP do not actually care about debt or spending, it's a distraction.
- consteval 2y ago
  The debt will only grow under Republican leadership. Framing this as an economic issue is disingenuous, and we all know it. That debt goes straight into enriching the already rich.

deleted 2y ago

[deleted]

duxup 2y ago

>Americans don’t want to be embroiled in endless wars. We don't want our troops / people embroiled in them, so fighting for freedom by funding others is a good way to do that. Waiting until it comes to your doorstep by nations who have made no qualms that they aren't friendly is a bad choice.

jiggawatts 2y ago

You’re being downvoted, but sadly your opinion is representative of a huge percentage of the population. The part that has a… simple, transactional view of each and every international incident. That’s the most polite way I could express that. The more nuanced view is this: America made a deal with Ukraine: Give up your nuclear weapons in exchange for our protection. They made similar deals with Taiwan, South Korea, and others. Sometimes with signatures on paper, sometimes with threats of “don’t even think about it”. Now they are “all thinking about it”. All of them: the countries with small populations, small armies, inconveniently located next to a larger bully like Russia or China. Here in Australia, the right wing government is prepping us to build nuclear weapons. We’re acquiring nuclear-powered submarines that can launch nuclear tipped cruise missiles and the only thing they’re proposing in the next election is building dozens of nuclear power plants… that they admit will only fulfill maybe 4% of our energy needs… but 100% of our weapons-grade plutonium breeding needs. South Korea and Japan already have the nuclear plants. What do you think they’re planning, now that they all see how worthless American promises are? Especially since yesterday’s(!) events, when Trump was asked about AUKUS, the most important and closest military alliance the US is a part of and he had no idea what it was! This is why even close allies are tooling up for imminent global nuclear conflict. Because America elected a president that famously violates the terms of every contract he’s ever signed. Twice. To make sure everyone got the message.

anigbrowl 2y ago
Japan is absolutely thinking about its own nuclear deterrent. The conventional diplomatic wisdom is that they can spin one up rapidly. Like most countries, they're deeply taken aback by the US trashing existing alliances and showing far more rhetorical aggression toward its neighbors than its supposed antagonists. https://www.irsem.fr/media/etude-irsem-93-albessard-japan-en-v2.pdf https://www.irsem.fr/media/etude-irsem-93-albessard-japan-en...

Panoramix 2y ago

You don't seem to understand. All Ukraine wants is a security promise. They could surrender to Putin at any time without giving up to the US all of their resources for generations. They need some help to say, if I sign peace now, what's gonna stop Putin from invading again in 2-3 years with a bigger army? Currently, nothing - so there's no point in surrendering. For background, the US promised to defend Ukraine against any invasion when Ukraine was pushed to get rid of its nukes. Turns out it's not willing to even send American made military equipment.

imgabe 2y ago
We sent $350 billion including tons of military equipment. Most of it got stolen. They can’t even account for it.
- darthrupert 2y ago
  This is probably disinformation. A majority of the Ukraine aid resources from US get spent inside the US so any lost funds or misaccounting would happen there.