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I normally avoid commenting on politics entirely but I feel compelled to comment here. I'm sure anyone who's ever been bullied in their life will feel exactly w
by Nition 2y ago
I normally avoid commenting on politics entirely but I feel compelled to comment here. I'm sure anyone who's ever been bullied in their life will feel exactly what's happening in that video clip. Two big kids, confident in their position and backing each other up, gang up on the outsider. Did they ever really want to make a deal at all? Absolutely infuriating and saddening to watch.
- surfpel 2y ago[flagged]
- wrs 2y agoThey don’t seem to realize that.
- marvin 2y agoNation-state politics often devolves to the level of children on a playground. This was one of those occasions.
- beretguy 2y agoNot always. That third guy, the on the left, behaves himself like a responsible adult should.
- surfpel 2y agoAmerica did used to have real diplomacy, in the sense that there was an active dialogue between diplomats in America and their counterparts abroad. During the unipolar moment, they gave that up. That's beyond dangerous and frankly suicidal.
- beretguy 2y agoTechnically, yes, but Nition was just drawing parallels between their behavior and that of children to show how incompetent and immature they are.
- BLKNSLVR 2y agoJust makes it so much worse doesn't it?
- mijoharas 2y agoI think you watched a different clip to the one I watched...
- TiredOfLife 2y agoCitation needed.
- jjulius 2y agoThank you for making OP's point. They are world leaders, and here they are acting like children on a playground.
- istjohn 2y agoSomeone should tell them.
- entropyneur 2y agoYup. I started having dreams about bullying recently, even before today's scene.
- pixxel 2y ago[dead]
- mock-possum 2y agoHold on are you claiming to be experiencing prophetic dreams?
- profstasiak 2y agomuad'dib
- aaron695 2y ago[dead]
- Buttons840 2y agoTrump and Vance were saying things like "you're being disrespectful", and "you haven't said 'thank you'"--this level of argument is completely unproductive; it's what you would expect to hear from parents of dysfunctional families, not from world leaders.
- noirbot 2y agoAnd it betrays a total lack of care for substance. Zelensky has delivered public speeches in the US, while wearing a suit if that matters saying thanks to the US for their support. He just said it to the whole country, and while Biden was president. Trump doesn't care if the US gets credit, he wants to steal that credit personally, despite literally having been impeached for trying to extort Zelensky. It's amazing levels of personal pettiness and ego. That's before you get to them inviting a Russian state news person to watch and then claiming they "snuck in" as if someone can just bumble into a meeting of world leaders.
- DeepSeaTortoise 2y agoTrump didn't demand credit or thanks from Zelensky. Vance did. And Vance was literally just dropping hints to back down in front of the media and to present himself as grateful, because he saw the important talks about to be derailed before they even began: > Vance: Have you said thank you once? > Zelenskyy: A lot of times. > Vance: No, in this meeting, this entire meeting? Offer some words of appreciation for the United States of America and the president who’s trying to save your country. (And the entire heated conversation in general) IMO, the language barrier really screwed Zelensky over. > [Zelensky not wearing a suit] Trump's attitude is that how you dress to an event is a sign of respect for the people you meet. Many disagree with this attitude, but if that's how someone you're going to meet thinks, then you adjust to it. Like not showing up in gym clothes to a job interview.
- mewpmewp2 2y agoThe thing is... That even if Zelensky did have the perfect dress code, perfect niceties, the whole thing was a setup with trying to pressure Zelensky into a bad deal. And if Zelensky was not to accept it the goal was to humiliate and embarrass him publically. So Vance and Trump would have gone for any other possible targets they can find, or alternatively invent some. So they kept provoking Zelensky whole time and even before when Trump called Zelensky a dictator, which is far more disrespectful than anything Zelensky has done. Even through that, it's crazy the patience Zelensky had.
- the_clarence 2y agoIt's more than that. Some people in the audience started harassing Zelensky as well for not wearing a suit. It's just sad how the US has given up on diplomacy thinking that the worldstage is a businness as usual
- ZeroGravitas 2y agoNot just "some people" but specifically a MAGA Republican Senator's boyfriend.
- ttyprintk 2y agoDressed up like a journalist, an obsequious irrelevant Greek chorus.
- theothermelissa 2y agoThat moment seemed to me to be when Zelensky realized (or accepted) that it was a 'bullies ganging up' setup, and started pushing back.
- edelwiess 2y agoYes it was out right bullying after being challenged. Vance quickly devolved to “don’t question us, say thank you”. I showed and discussed with my kids as example of textbook bullying
- mewpmewp2 2y agoWith such basic and seemingly silly, toxic tactics that they can get away with because of the power position they hold. Zelensky came there jet lagged, alone, while not being able to use his native language.
- ignoramous 2y ago> ...not being able to use his native language Which is ... Russian? Should have aligned himself with the Kremlin, like Lukashenko, if rhetoric/language mattered more for diplomacy and politics. > toxic tactics that they can get away with because of the power position they hold True. No matter the language such situations are bound to happen amidst power struggle.
- mewpmewp2 2y agoI'm not making an observation about whether he should have used another language, but just that this was one of the reasons why he was at a huge disadvantage in terms of being able to deal with the blatant bullying.
- ignoramous 2y agoWhat I'm saying is that language mattered little. If Zelensky was an anglophone from the UK, he was going to get shafted just the same (as it all looks like he walked straight into a trap there).
- n4r9 2y agoThis comes across as highly dismissive. The man can speak three languages very competently. That's two more than Vance and three more than Trump. Obviously language matters, but for Ukrainians democracy and sovereignty matter more.
- herghost 2y ago100% bullying. Something that isn't seemingly being commented widely on either is that Vance started hitting Zelenskyy with bursts of multiple questions and as soon as he started answering the first there were immediate challenges and redirections. English isn't Zelenskyy's first language. Imagine how tough this must have been. At that point the questions weren't questions anymore - they were statements that were left unchallenged.
- llamaimperative 2y agoVance just gets worse and worse every day, and so does certain SV circles’ infatuation with him. An absolute snake.
- DiogenesKynikos 2y agoVance works for a guy that he himself used to call Hitler. That tells you everything you need to know about Vance.
- deleted 2y ago[deleted]
- ttyprintk 2y agoYeah but that doesn’t rule him out in the struggle for succession. Because the VP can’t be primaried in 2026, he’s at the disadvantage that he won’t know if Musk will fund him; he’ll have to fundraise as the conventional pick.
- nozzlegear 2y ago> Something that isn't seemingly being commented widely on either is that Vance started hitting Zelenskyy with bursts of multiple questions and as soon as he started answering the first there were immediate challenges and redirections. It's a (shitty) debate tactic called "gish galloping." It's not exclusively used by people on the right, but there are some very popular online personalities on the right who use it. Ben Shapiro is easily the most infamous for using it, but Jordan Peterson and Trump himself use it too. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gish_gallop https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gish_gallop
- bjoli 2y agoThey never wanted a deal. If they wanted one it would have been negotiated and done before Zelensky stepped on American soil. I don't want to fall into the conspiracy trap, but I can't help thinking this was planned on advance. Especially considering how couch man acted. Trump was wandering around aimlessly until Vance took command.