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>fighting for his countries freedom against a totalitarian regime He sent hundreds of thousands of his own people into a meat grinder to fight for the privileg

>fighting for his countries freedom against a totalitarian regime He sent hundreds of thousands of his own people into a meat grinder to fight for the privilege of being ruled by his corrupt government (recognised as one of the most corrupt governments in Europe) instead of a different corrupt government, with his thugs literally going door-to-door dragging unwilling youths off to die. The average Ukrainian wasn't any better off under Ukrainian government than under Russian government, and they'd certainly be much better off alive than dead.

gnfargbl 2y ago
In the short term, certainly. In the longer term? I'm pretty glad not to have been born into an occupied British puppet state. If not for a man with the obstinacy of Zelenskyy, I might have been. It was always ironic that Trump kept a bust of Churchill in the Oval Office but after today, it's almost obscene.
- logicchains 2y ago
  In the longer term there's realistically no chance of Ukraine regaining the land it lost. In both this scenario and that scenario Russia annexes part of Eastern Ukraine, but in that scenario there aren't hundreds of thousands of dead Ukrainians.
  - gnfargbl 2y ago
    And what exactly do you think Putin will do after he successfully exits this particular engagement? Past performance is, in fact, often quite a reliable guarantee of future results.
    - johngladtj 2y ago
      Lick his wounds for years, and die. This Ukraine debacle wasn't the clean win he wanted.
      - gnfargbl 2y ago
        If you believe Putin only wants "clean wins," you've fundamentally misunderstood his character. It's a binary outcome from his perspective. If he obtains his his key objectives at some survivable cost, that's a win for him.
streb-lo 2y ago
The vast majority of them volunteered. And that's just conscription -- every country would do the same in such a situation. The US pursued and prosecuted thousands of cases of draft dodging in WW2, forcing most of them to go and fight.
- s1artibartfast 2y ago
  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Conscription_in_Ukraine https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Conscription_in_Ukraine https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ukrainian_conscription_crisis https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ukrainian_conscription_crisis

gnfargbl 2y ago

In the short term, certainly. In the longer term? I'm pretty glad not to have been born into an occupied British puppet state. If not for a man with the obstinacy of Zelenskyy, I might have been. It was always ironic that Trump kept a bust of Churchill in the Oval Office but after today, it's almost obscene.

logicchains 2y ago
In the longer term there's realistically no chance of Ukraine regaining the land it lost. In both this scenario and that scenario Russia annexes part of Eastern Ukraine, but in that scenario there aren't hundreds of thousands of dead Ukrainians.
- gnfargbl 2y ago
  And what exactly do you think Putin will do after he successfully exits this particular engagement? Past performance is, in fact, often quite a reliable guarantee of future results.
  - johngladtj 2y ago
    Lick his wounds for years, and die. This Ukraine debacle wasn't the clean win he wanted.
    - gnfargbl 2y ago
      If you believe Putin only wants "clean wins," you've fundamentally misunderstood his character. It's a binary outcome from his perspective. If he obtains his his key objectives at some survivable cost, that's a win for him.

streb-lo 2y ago

The vast majority of them volunteered. And that's just conscription -- every country would do the same in such a situation. The US pursued and prosecuted thousands of cases of draft dodging in WW2, forcing most of them to go and fight.

s1artibartfast 2y ago
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Conscription_in_Ukraine https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Conscription_in_Ukraine https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ukrainian_conscription_crisis https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ukrainian_conscription_crisis