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FYI: you can end up in jail for posting "wrong" things on Facebook in Europe and the UK. And the UK doesn't permit backup encryption. As far as freedom of speec
by ein0p 2y ago
FYI: you can end up in jail for posting "wrong" things on Facebook in Europe and the UK. And the UK doesn't permit backup encryption. As far as freedom of speech, we have a _considerable_ advantage. In some European countries (including, ironically, Ukraine) you wouldn't even be able to criticize the government the way we do it here in the US.
- TheOtherHobbes 2y agoThe only people being jailed in the UK are violent criminals who use racism as a pretext for violence, and peaceful protestors who threaten the profits of fossil fuel companies.
- libertine 2y agoFYI like Nazi stuff, I believe in a lot of European countries doing Nazi salutes to an audience would mean jail time, and rightfully so.
- trallnag 2y agoThis this makes Europe less free than the USA. Again, nothing wrong with that. Just leaves a sour taste in my mouth to try to twist facts.
- libertine 2y agoFreedom to promote Nazism and to promote the rehabilitation of Nazis isn't welcomed in Europe. Yes, it might theoretically make Europe less free, and now you have the Twitter guy being a member of the US administration doing Nazi salutes and promoting far right parties. Suddenly Hitler was a victim. Like the disregard for the thousands of young men lost on the D day and to the war, to reach this freedom you're preaching. Yet that doesn't seem to leave any sour taste, go figure. But I have to ask, why you want the freedom for people to be able to promote Nazism?
- ein0p 2y agoUh https://www.timesofisrael.com/after-nazi-ss-veterans-hold-annual-march-in-latvia-square-one-woman-fights-back/ https://www.timesofisrael.com/after-nazi-ss-veterans-hold-an..., https://www.timesofisrael.com/hundreds-of-ukrainian-nationalists-march-in-in-honor-of-nazi-collaborator/ https://www.timesofisrael.com/hundreds-of-ukrainian-national..., https://www.timesofisrael.com/thousands-of-estonian-far-right-supporters-hold-torchlight-march-ahead-of-polls/ https://www.timesofisrael.com/thousands-of-estonian-far-righ..., https://defendinghistory.com/sebastian-pammer-reports-on-neo-nazi-parade-vilnius-11-march-2011/13404 https://defendinghistory.com/sebastian-pammer-reports-on-neo... That's just the first page of search results. Are you sure that rehabilitation of Nazis isn't welcomed in Europe?
- A4ET8a8uTh0_v2 2y agoI want people to be free to pull in all sorts of directions. There is no exceptions for things I don't like.
- libertine 2y agoBut that's your problem, don't try to shove that onto others, that's why we learn History in school. If you want people to be free to promote Nazism, xenophobia, ethnophobia, racism, etc, and you're good with that because History hasn't taught you anything, that's your problem, not ours.
- A4ET8a8uTh0_v2 2y agoHeh. No. It is officially now your problem as well. Things magically don't stop existing just because you close your eyes and pretend they are not there. And here is a very practical reasons why you DO want to be able have people openly say whatever. If you can't see it, you don't even know it is a problem that may need to be addressed. At best, it is a very naive viewpoint.
- libertine 2y agoNot really my problem, as there are laws in place where I'm from. Just because things exist doesn't mean you should have a platform to promote them, this is a very basic concept. Doesn't look like you understand that allowing the promotion of Nazism will do exactly that, promote Nazism.
- thrance 2y agoAmerican journalists are already getting silenced when talking up about the government. What EU county are you even talking about? Nowhere is it this bad in Europe.
- ein0p 2y agoWhich ones? You'll have to be more specific.
- thrance 2y agoQuick summary: https://www.lemonde.fr/en/about-us/article/2025/02/26/in-the-us-47-journalists-associations-denounce-attacks-on-freedom-of-expression_6738602_115.html https://www.lemonde.fr/en/about-us/article/2025/02/26/in-the...
- dkenyser 2y agoOh they have to be more specific while you provide absolutely zero evidence for any of your claims?
- danem 2y agoSilenced as in, not given access to White House officials? Sorry but there is a difference between that and arresting people for things they say online. https://www.cbsnews.com/news/policing-speech-online-germany-60-minutes-transcript/ https://www.cbsnews.com/news/policing-speech-online-germany-... https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/cr548zdmz3jo https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/cr548zdmz3jo
- jacobp100 2y agoYou can criticise the government in any way you like You can't incite violence - and if you do that when there's a riot ongoing, the punishment has resulted in jail time. Anything nazi related is also a no-go
- ein0p 2y agoNot true. Germany can prosecute you for "insulting the public officials", Spain - for "insulting the royal family", Poland for "offending the Polish nation", Italy for widely interpreted "criminal defamation", in Greece it is illegal to insult the president, parliament or public officials, in Ukraine saying anything against the prevailing narrative lands you directly in a torture dungeon (like what happened with Gonzalo Lira, who lived in Kharkiv, and was arrested, tortured, and left to die of pneumonia by Ukrainian SBU).
- oezi 2y agoNo slandering laws in the US? I don't think so.
- luc4 2y agoAt the risk of stating the obvious, you can criticise the government without personally insulting public officals. In fact, in Germany, you can be prosecuted for insulting anyone; there is nothing special about public officials.
- cyberpunk 2y agoThis lacks any nuance. Ukraine is in an active war. They restrict pro-enemy propaganda. Do you think your outcome would be any different if you publicly posted pro-jihadi anti-American content on social media after 9/11?
- ein0p 2y agoAn US citizen was tortured and effectively murdered, and you're talking to me about "nuance"? WTF?
- Xeamek 2y agoPost specific or shut up, because this is just spewing bullshit with some true bits sprinkled on top for the sake of deniability.
- philipwhiuk 2y agoYou can end up in jail for posting "wrong" things on Facebook in the US too.. It's just a slightly different line. > In some European countries (including, ironically, Ukraine) you wouldn't even be able to criticize the government the way we do it here in the US. That's not true.
- otterley 2y ago> You can end up in jail for posting "wrong" things on Facebook in the US too. It's just a slightly different line. WTF are you talking about? Unless you're referring to state secrets or CSAM, or threatening an official, there's no way you're going to jail over a Facebook posting. And it's not a "slightly different line." Those and political speech are miles apart.
- vsean 2y agoTry posting death threat about the US president on FB to see if you broke the law or not, and if it can land you in jail? > As far as freedom of speech, we have a _considerable_ advantage. In some European countries (including, ironically, Ukraine) you wouldn't even be able to criticize the government the way we do it here in the US. I'm going to bet that you've never been to Europe and understand that each country has very different laws. Cherry picking some random issues from several different countries and making it seem like it a policy of the entire of the EU is silly.
- SCdF 2y ago> And the UK doesn't permit backup encryption Apple disabled encrypted iCloud instead of giving the UK government a backdoor, or continuing to fight them on the idea in general. People in the UK can absolutely continue to encrypt my backups.
- freezepeach 2y ago[dead]
- wg0 2y agoHate speech isn't free speech. Any free speech isn't necessarily hate speech but any hate speech surely isn't free speech. There's a huge difference and that restraint is ingrained in these societies based on their past experiences.
- oezi 2y agoAbsolutely right! E. G. freedom of speech is in the German constitution one of the highest items. But it isn't higher than human dignity. If you slander somebody your freedom of speech and their dignity need to be balanced. In Germany we have chosen to rank dignity higher.
- wg0 2y agoAnd it is as simple as that. I prefer that.
- breckenedge 2y agoWho gets to define what constitutes “hate speech”?
- ein0p 2y agoWho defines what constitutes "hate speech"? Do you not recognize this as a hangar-sized backdoor?
- jillyboel 2y agoTry posting your plans to assassinate the orange idiot on facebook and see what happens
- ein0p 2y agoReddit is full of this, and nothing happens. At worst you will get a couple of folks from Secret Service come over and check up on the seriousness of your intentions.
- 1832 2y ago> FYI: you can end up in jail for posting "wrong" things on Facebook in Europe and the UK. What do you mean? What can you currently not say in Europe and the UK without getting put in jail for it?
- krona 2y agoSection 127 of the UK's Communications Act 2003 makes it illegal to send e.g. tweets that are "grossly offensive" or "indecent, obscene, or menacing". The Malicious Communications Act 1988 makes it illegal to send offensive communications. I could go on...
- hk__2 2y agoPlease go on because nothing that you mentioned can send you in jail.
- krona 2y agoOh? How about being held 18 months on remand if you don't automatically plead guilty? Perhaps read the sentencing guidelines for s127.
- nrawe 2y agoRight, but that's not a free speach issue. I can critise a public officials handling of a situation, or disagree with a policy, or publicly protest a law, and not go to prison. I cannot be wantonly offensive about a minister just because I don't like them, up to including threatening behaviour. Free speach doesn't mean no rules/consequences.
- krona 2y agoHave you ever sent anyone a message that later turned out to be false?[1] Do you have £50k on hand to defend yourself against the accusation that you knew it to be false when you sent it? Perhaps you'd rather spend 18 months on remand in the meantime, just to be sure you don't send anything else that might also be false, while we prepare your trial (which may or may not collapse due to a complete lack of evidence). [1] https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2023/50/section/179 https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2023/50/section/179
- kubb 2y agoYou can go to jail for criticizing the government in Russia and Belarus... Not in any of the EU countries. It's sad that you believed whoever sold you this lie.
- trallnag 2y agoNice whataboutism. Europe (especially the UK) has less freedoms than the USA. That's a fact.
- kubb 2y agoWhataboutism? We're literally talking about a war Russia is the aggressor in. The US has stronger legal protection for speech and guns, but also more incarceration and police power. US incarceration rate is four times the UK rate. Also in the UK, the speech restrictions are about stuff like glorifying terrorism, hate speech or harassment. You can criticize the government as much as you want. In the US you're free to buy a gun, praise ISIS, and shout on the street that people should be murdered or that you love Hitler but not everyone likes that.
- bashback 2y ago[dead]