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Negotiations get heated. It's the only way to reach an honest agreement. Better to get those feelings out. Trump was elected on negotiating a peace, and that

Negotiations get heated. It's the only way to reach an honest agreement. Better to get those feelings out. Trump was elected on negotiating a peace, and that's going to piss off Zelensky. Zelensky became entitled to a blank check with no strings attached. Now the terms have changed. There are some people who expect dialog to proceed like an HR meeting, and those that find relief in direct and sometimes heated language. To me the meeting felt like a tremendous relief. A resolution will develop, finally.

jorblumesea 2y ago
what? you don't have negotiations in public at a press conference. what is trump negotiating here? terms that Ukraine won't accept? what resolution will come out of this outside of hardening Ukrainian resolve, bolstering Zelensky and getting Europe to fund the war? Trump, the master negotiator /s A shameful, tactless and pre-planned display. it's easy to blame trump and vance but the true losers here are the American people. American soft power is critical to America's economic power.
- deleted 2y ago
  [deleted]
- castlefreak 2y ago
  I actually agree that it was a planned dressing down for optics sakes but the attempt is to try to get Zelenskyy out of the way for Trump / Putin direct deal to settle Ukraine matter and the success of this strategy will depend on whether the MAGA media hype will drown out the soft power enjoyers in terms of messaging.
- tonymet 2y ago
  What can europe fund the war with? Even if they can come up with the gold, who are they going to buy the weapons from?
  - acdha 2y ago
    Gold? It’s not the 19th century anymore and if you look at list of arms manufacturers you’ll find a lot of familiar names who take euros: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_modern_armament_manufacturers https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_modern_armament_manufa...
    - tonymet 2y ago
      the only way to get euros is with gold. The grain & minerals aren't being produced because he killed off his labor force (young men, and the old ones)
      - acdha 2y ago
        You asked what Europe can fund the war with. The euro zone has a $20 trillion dollar GDP and extensive domestic manufacturing so it’s not clear why you think they need gold to use their own tax revenue.
        tonymet 2y ago
        Ukraine isn’t Europe. Ukraine doesn’t have euros , gold, grain or minerals (out of the ground). And the men have been killed , so they don’t have any way to get that to pay for the weapons
        acdha 2y ago
        You asked “What can europe fund the war with?” Did you mean to write “Ukraine” instead of “europe”? Otherwise it seems weird to say that the EU can’t take euros, give them to manufacturers in the EU, and disagree the weapons to Ukraine.
        tonymet 2y ago
        Both.
samename 2y ago
[flagged]
TechnicolorByte 2y ago
[flagged]
scop 2y ago
[flagged]
- huang_chung 2y ago
  It's best to read HN in reverse order to get true diversity of thought. Also recommend custom stylesheet to unhide the grey-text posts.
- vsean 2y ago
  You keep saying peace, but if Ukraine stops fighting without security guarantees from countries like the US they get murdered, raped and their children abducted by Russia. How do we know? The war started in 2014, not 2022. That's the truth that Trump won't acknowledge and common us opinions don't have the understanding of. It's inconvenient and annoying. The only person who can stop this war and bring peace is Putin. Trump could try forcing him, but it's easier just to sacrifice the entire country of Ukraine?!
  - scop 2y ago
    > The war started in 2014 Exactly! This is the key. Why do you think Trump was the first US president that didn’t see Putin mount an offensive during his term? Trump armed Ukraine to the teeth during his first term, while being sure not to escalate with Putin. He carried a big stick but also didn’t provoke. Ukraine in NATO is unacceptable for Putin. Fact of life. US wouldn’t want Chinese military defenses in Mexico. Biden admin and Europe seem obsessed with this, but Ukraine in NATO ain’t gonna happen without risking a hot war with A FUCKING NUCLEAR POWER. We either end this now or at the very least drive Russia further into China’s arms or provoke a real WW with millions dead. This isn’t just good vs evil. Reality sucks sometimes, but you gotta deal with it. Trump admin is completely ready and willing to provide arms and aid to Ukraine, just as they did in first term. But we’re sick and tired of seeing endless aid further provoking a nuclear power with absolutely nobody envisioning an end other than “we beat Putin”. All the while we deplete our munitions, supplies, money, and have Russia-China rise.
    - arp242 2y ago
apstls 2y ago
Out of curiosity, what are the other similar public meetings/negotiations you’re aware of that were conducted in a similar way? Or generally, since you say this did not deviate from your expectations, what are the past events that influenced your baseline expectation for conduct on the geopolitical stage?
- tonymet 2y ago
  it sounds like you're preferring status quo. I'm saying that status quo has failed.
  - apstls 2y ago
    Could you explain further? Specifically in the context of this discussion/today’s meeting and conduct?
    - tonymet 2y ago
      I really couldn't have been any clearer, so I don't know what to tell you.
- graublau 2y ago
  Civility is overrated. Maybe you felt like tired rhetoric from prior admin about Israel or Putin was more effective but I sure don't. People are awfully afraid to rock the boat in American political discourse. It's probably been too polite as a cover for a lot of ugly policy on both the left and right.
- suzzer99 2y ago
  > Out of curiosity, what are the other similar public meetings/negotiations you’re aware of that were conducted in a similar way? There have been a ton of them, at least according to historical accounts. But none in front of reporters like this.
demarq 2y ago
Agree with you, too much focus on optics over getting things done. Trump doesn’t seem to care if people are unhappy or uncomfortable, it’s like he has his list of things he said he’d do and he’s sticking to it.
- apstls 2y ago
  Consider the space of possible paths towards peace in UA that the current administration can choose from. Do you believe the paths with the highest likelihood of success for reaching a mutual peace agreement involve making one of the sides unhappy, uncomfortable, angry, or by publicly berating them? It is true that he doesn’t care if people are unhappy or uncomfortable, it’s true he doesn’t care about optics, it is true that he has a set of things he wants to get done, and it’s true the first two points influence his approach to achieving the latter. However the question - the only question that matters - still remains: is this approach the most effective course of action to choose? Maybe it’s not reasonable to assert with complete confidence that it isn’t, but it is certainly unreasonable to assert that it is.
kristiandupont 2y ago
[flagged]
- ygjb 2y ago
  And days after the election he started threatening potential military force to acquire Greenland and Panama, and economic force to annex Canada. The reasons he was elected are irrelevant, only his actions since being elected and taking power are. Since then, Trump has proposed ethnic cleansing and gentrification of Ghaza, and proposed launching attacks into Mexico (putatively to take out cartel members). Anyone who thinks that Trump or his administration are looking for peace or peaceful solutions is clearly delusional.
  - tonymet 2y ago
    He’s commanded more peace than every president since Herbert Hoover

jorblumesea 2y ago

what? you don't have negotiations in public at a press conference. what is trump negotiating here? terms that Ukraine won't accept? what resolution will come out of this outside of hardening Ukrainian resolve, bolstering Zelensky and getting Europe to fund the war? Trump, the master negotiator /s A shameful, tactless and pre-planned display. it's easy to blame trump and vance but the true losers here are the American people. American soft power is critical to America's economic power.

deleted 2y ago
[deleted]
castlefreak 2y ago
I actually agree that it was a planned dressing down for optics sakes but the attempt is to try to get Zelenskyy out of the way for Trump / Putin direct deal to settle Ukraine matter and the success of this strategy will depend on whether the MAGA media hype will drown out the soft power enjoyers in terms of messaging.
tonymet 2y ago
What can europe fund the war with? Even if they can come up with the gold, who are they going to buy the weapons from?
- acdha 2y ago
  Gold? It’s not the 19th century anymore and if you look at list of arms manufacturers you’ll find a lot of familiar names who take euros: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_modern_armament_manufacturers https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_modern_armament_manufa...
  - tonymet 2y ago
    the only way to get euros is with gold. The grain & minerals aren't being produced because he killed off his labor force (young men, and the old ones)
    - acdha 2y ago
      You asked what Europe can fund the war with. The euro zone has a $20 trillion dollar GDP and extensive domestic manufacturing so it’s not clear why you think they need gold to use their own tax revenue.
      - tonymet 2y ago
        Ukraine isn’t Europe. Ukraine doesn’t have euros , gold, grain or minerals (out of the ground). And the men have been killed , so they don’t have any way to get that to pay for the weapons
        acdha 2y ago
        You asked “What can europe fund the war with?” Did you mean to write “Ukraine” instead of “europe”? Otherwise it seems weird to say that the EU can’t take euros, give them to manufacturers in the EU, and disagree the weapons to Ukraine.
        tonymet 2y ago
        Both.

samename 2y ago

[flagged]

TechnicolorByte 2y ago

[flagged]

scop 2y ago

[flagged]

huang_chung 2y ago
It's best to read HN in reverse order to get true diversity of thought. Also recommend custom stylesheet to unhide the grey-text posts.
vsean 2y ago
You keep saying peace, but if Ukraine stops fighting without security guarantees from countries like the US they get murdered, raped and their children abducted by Russia. How do we know? The war started in 2014, not 2022. That's the truth that Trump won't acknowledge and common us opinions don't have the understanding of. It's inconvenient and annoying. The only person who can stop this war and bring peace is Putin. Trump could try forcing him, but it's easier just to sacrifice the entire country of Ukraine?!
- scop 2y ago
  > The war started in 2014 Exactly! This is the key. Why do you think Trump was the first US president that didn’t see Putin mount an offensive during his term? Trump armed Ukraine to the teeth during his first term, while being sure not to escalate with Putin. He carried a big stick but also didn’t provoke. Ukraine in NATO is unacceptable for Putin. Fact of life. US wouldn’t want Chinese military defenses in Mexico. Biden admin and Europe seem obsessed with this, but Ukraine in NATO ain’t gonna happen without risking a hot war with A FUCKING NUCLEAR POWER. We either end this now or at the very least drive Russia further into China’s arms or provoke a real WW with millions dead. This isn’t just good vs evil. Reality sucks sometimes, but you gotta deal with it. Trump admin is completely ready and willing to provide arms and aid to Ukraine, just as they did in first term. But we’re sick and tired of seeing endless aid further provoking a nuclear power with absolutely nobody envisioning an end other than “we beat Putin”. All the while we deplete our munitions, supplies, money, and have Russia-China rise.
  - arp242 2y ago

apstls 2y ago

Out of curiosity, what are the other similar public meetings/negotiations you’re aware of that were conducted in a similar way? Or generally, since you say this did not deviate from your expectations, what are the past events that influenced your baseline expectation for conduct on the geopolitical stage?

tonymet 2y ago
it sounds like you're preferring status quo. I'm saying that status quo has failed.
- apstls 2y ago
  Could you explain further? Specifically in the context of this discussion/today’s meeting and conduct?
  - tonymet 2y ago
    I really couldn't have been any clearer, so I don't know what to tell you.
graublau 2y ago
Civility is overrated. Maybe you felt like tired rhetoric from prior admin about Israel or Putin was more effective but I sure don't. People are awfully afraid to rock the boat in American political discourse. It's probably been too polite as a cover for a lot of ugly policy on both the left and right.
suzzer99 2y ago
> Out of curiosity, what are the other similar public meetings/negotiations you’re aware of that were conducted in a similar way? There have been a ton of them, at least according to historical accounts. But none in front of reporters like this.

demarq 2y ago

Agree with you, too much focus on optics over getting things done. Trump doesn’t seem to care if people are unhappy or uncomfortable, it’s like he has his list of things he said he’d do and he’s sticking to it.

apstls 2y ago
Consider the space of possible paths towards peace in UA that the current administration can choose from. Do you believe the paths with the highest likelihood of success for reaching a mutual peace agreement involve making one of the sides unhappy, uncomfortable, angry, or by publicly berating them? It is true that he doesn’t care if people are unhappy or uncomfortable, it’s true he doesn’t care about optics, it is true that he has a set of things he wants to get done, and it’s true the first two points influence his approach to achieving the latter. However the question - the only question that matters - still remains: is this approach the most effective course of action to choose? Maybe it’s not reasonable to assert with complete confidence that it isn’t, but it is certainly unreasonable to assert that it is.

kristiandupont 2y ago

[flagged]

ygjb 2y ago
And days after the election he started threatening potential military force to acquire Greenland and Panama, and economic force to annex Canada. The reasons he was elected are irrelevant, only his actions since being elected and taking power are. Since then, Trump has proposed ethnic cleansing and gentrification of Ghaza, and proposed launching attacks into Mexico (putatively to take out cartel members). Anyone who thinks that Trump or his administration are looking for peace or peaceful solutions is clearly delusional.
- tonymet 2y ago
  He’s commanded more peace than every president since Herbert Hoover