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Let’s be real: NATO is already a farce at the moment. If Article 5 is triggered by a European nation, would Trump respond? Of course not.
by archagon 2y ago
Let’s be real: NATO is already a farce at the moment. If Article 5 is triggered by a European nation, would Trump respond? Of course not.
- insane_dreamer 2y agoYeah, I was wondering at what point Putin decides to roll the dice and put that to the test by rolling into Estonia, Lithuania or Latvia. He must be feeling his chances are pretty good right now.
- tim333 2y agoI'm not sure that would go very well for Putin just now. The Russians are already supplying their troops with donkeys as they've run low on vehicles just fighting Ukraine. (https://metro.co.uk/2025/02/07/putin-resorts-using-donkeys-front-line-run-vehicles-22513922/ https://metro.co.uk/2025/02/07/putin-resorts-using-donkeys-f...) Even if the US did nothing, rolling into NATO lands would put them up against the UK, Germany, France. Poland et al as well as Ukraine. The worry is more that a ceasefire is called. Russia rearms and succeeds in taking over Ukraine and then a combined Ukraine and Russia attacks Europe with President Vance supporting Putin.
- techorange 2y agoI don't think that we're this far gone yet, but is there a chance the US sides with Putin in this case? I think it would be risky, and I don't _think_ Trump's base would go for it, but it does feel like the long term goal is to try to sanitize the idea of a shift in the geopolitical order to ally America with Russia instead of with Europe.
- senordevnyc 2y agoSeems too soon, and both Trump and Putin know that. But in a few months, when Trump’s base and the Republican Party have turned completely pro-Putin and anti-Europe…
- epistasis 2y agoIMHO, they are already there. There's no spine in the Republican party to prevent bowing down to Putin, they have always been anti-Europe, and Putin is a big daddy that they actively court when they idolize Hungary's dictator and hold CPAC meetings and try to emulate Orban.
- borsecplata 2y agotrump and the republicans must really be stupid to trade NATO for russia, while leaving an opening for china to side with europe. If US ditches europe, india/SK/JP and the rest of asia will soon reciprocate. All this so that US sides with a bankrupt cleptocracy and dictatorship. 1000iq move, I guess.
- alrs 2y agoEurope is not allowed to have its own foreign policy, let alone "side with China." All of those US military bases are there for a reason.
- rectang 2y ago…for now. With the US acting in concert with Russia against Europe’s interest, it’s time for Europe to reconsider whether those bases should stay.
- alrs 2y agoEurope has no say in the matter, short of France using its nukes.
- CodeBytes 2y agoUnless Trump wants to start WW3 the US won't be able to do anything, and even if he did start WW3, Europe would be able to destroy those bases. The whole point of them was to give the US influence while improving US security. Given Europe can't trust Trump will come to their aid, they won't give the US as much influence over Europe.
- alrs 2y agohttps://old.reddit.com/r/whowouldwin/comments/1aywc5a/european_union_vs_usa/ https://old.reddit.com/r/whowouldwin/comments/1aywc5a/europe...
- myko 2y agotrump's base just goes for whatever he says now - perhaps in 2016/2017 they wouldn't, but it is a full on cult now
- techorange 2y agoNot if he puts boots on the ground. Having a relative die in a foreign war focuses people’s attention real fast. They may blame Biden somehow but
- corey_moncure 2y agoGosh could there be some kind of connection between Biden and the conflict in Ukraine?
- techorange 2y ago[dead]
- myko 2y agoYes, he did everything he could to prevent it - being mocked mercilessly by the rightwing for suggesting Putin might do what he eventually did. Biden did not do enough to kick Russia out, though. He should have given Ukraine everything they wanted, including a no-fly zone (and ideally Warthog support when Russia was stuck in the mud).
- tumsfestival 2y agoNah, they'd say it was god's will or some nonsense and pretend it's all right. A minority might even be completely fine with losses as long as their god emperor wins in the end and owns the libs.
- graublau 2y agoMaybe this passes as insightful in some circles but it's completely untrue when you consider how much of his base is currently fuming about weak Epstein annoucement and Israel more generally.
- simion314 2y agoI think in this era of misinformation Trump+Elon can convince their falolowers that is the greatest idea to help Putin, and that Putin is the second greatest leader in the world history after Trump... you can still see USAians claiming USA paid more then Europe even if the lie was exposed days ago
- preisschild 2y agoRussia is in war economy now, you definitely shouldn't underestimate them. Especially if the US lifts their sanctions against Russia.
- megous 2y agoIs that dumb? These transport animals basically make themselves. Self-replicating, way cheaper than robots, easy to replace when they break down. Don't need sophisticated software, etc. Just some training and sensory deprivation. I wish humans would not involve other species in their sadistic ways of killing and maiming each other, though. Donkeys, horses, ... all benefited from war mechanization. Dogs not so much so far. Dutch happily train dogs that are then sold to allies to be used to attack, threaten, maim, shit and piss on, sodomize, and kill defenseless people. Bizarre.
- m0llusk 2y agoIt isn't dumb so much as desperate. Their preference is to supply troops with trucks, but they have lost a huge number of trucks and use many of those remaining as troop transports on the front line which also speaks of desperation.
- etc-hosts 2y agoI hate being that guy sometimes but US Marines use donkeys. https://www.marines.mil/News/News-Display/Article/500002/marines-train-resupply-techniques-with-pack-animals/ https://www.marines.mil/News/News-Display/Article/500002/mar...
- F-W-M 2y agoWehrmacht was mostly supplied by horses.
- alabastervlog 2y agoNot a realistic risk, if only because I don't think they can credibly man a second front of any length at this point.
- WinstonSmith84 2y agoyeah NATO got irrelevant and Putin certainly now wishes he would not have attacked Ukraine. Rolling into these 3 mini countries with his entire army from 2022 would have been a much easier task
- sterlind 2y agoIn 2022 the US would have actually showed up for Article 5.
- graublau 2y agoDo you have any evidence of this "Lebensraum" Putin seeks?
- DrFalkyn 2y agoListen to their state media
- castlefreak 2y agoRT or TASS URL would improve this argument.
- DrFalkyn 2y agoHere’s Solovyov https://youtu.be/hULOZDqxv1Q?si=SAwB5ORJm5LM7vNk https://youtu.be/hULOZDqxv1Q?si=SAwB5ORJm5LM7vNk
- insane_dreamer 2y agoIt's not about Lebensraum in this case. It's restoring the glory of the USSR. And Putin has been clear on that.
- aparticulate 2y ago"Glory", so not specifics around hypothetical land Putin aka Hitler 2.0 imagines he wants. There's no evidence for him saying anything besides … what he's literally says. This fantasy conjecture is weakening the international position on Ukraine, especially with such easy access to Russian translation tools where we can just expose this secret conspiracy of yours. He literally only talks about Ukraine, you can look into this yourself. Or perhaps you mean "glory" in the sense of some kind of national pride and confidence in culture and nationality? I am not sure arguments against any nation seeking a sense of themselves are particularly compelling…
- generj 2y agoLook at the high level of Russian immigration into occupied Crimea.
- 6SixTy 2y agoJust because the US changing its mind about Russia changes NATO's dynamic as a whole does not mean that the Baltic states are immediately in danger. Poland and Finland are both nearby NATO countries that have experienced Russia's thumb directly with their own military industrial base or are developing one that would absolutely step in if need be. Reminder that Finland is really close to St. Petersburg, the 2nd largest city in Russia with some pretty big cultural and military importance. Putin's done some fantastically stupid stuff in regard to the 2022 Ukraine war, namely resuming it, but he's probably not that dumb.
- _DeadFred_ 2y agoCome one, we both know Trump would respond. With a contract for half the invaded nations resources.
- senordevnyc 2y agoAnd nothing in return. Such a brilliant negotiator!
- amyames 2y ago[flagged]
- ksaj 2y agoYou are right. I do hope Zelenksy noticed the sudden caveats he added a few days ago, too. Same thing - Trump wants many billions in resources, yet "can't" guarantee anything in return. Russia immediately responded by saying it would happily share those resources. Of course.
- drweevil 2y agoWhat if the trigger was the US annexing a NATO nation's territory? He's already made noises about Canada and Greenland (Denmark). That would be the ultimate farce.
- DamnYuppie 2y agoNo one is going to go to war for Canada lol. Would be fun to watch though. Would be like the US going to war for Mongolia.
- thinkingemote 2y agoGreenland is about the arctic. It's not some farce or meme. Look at an actual globe and when the ice melts that white stuff is going to be a navigable ocean between Canada Greenland and . . . Russia. We tend to think of the world on a flat world Google map and Russia seems so far away, but when the pole melts Russia will be closer to north America and they will be wanting that area too. No ice means it's easier to drill for natural resources. The US is preempting the melt and trying to get ahead in the race for the arctic. It's much more valuable than at first glance. I laughed first too. I then felt that my laughter was due to not understanding it. "How bizarre, LOL". Then I felt like I was missing something big. Now I try to use these "bizarre jokes" as a sign to look deeper. In a way (although this info isn't secret at all, just boring) we can use Trump's inability to have a filter to leak the advice that his advisors are giving him more than past statesmen would.
- etc-hosts 2y agoGreenland has coal, criolite, and most importantly is next to current and future shipping lanes. Some geologists think there might be tons of other deposits under the ice. The US has been trying to add Greenland since 1867.
- DamnYuppie 2y ago[flagged]
- mrtksn 2y agoThere was an opinion poll amongst British on this and apparently even Brits don’t trust America anymore. Only %44 believe that US will come to their help if Russia attacks UK. Yougov: https://x.com/yougov/status/1893967204846063823?s=46 https://x.com/yougov/status/1893967204846063823?s=46
- kelseydh 2y agoI'm curious if there is any polling data on British willingness to help Canada should they face invasion from the U.S. Canada being a commonwealth country with their King as their head of state.
- movingontonext 2y agoKing as head of state, as of 2022.
- School-Cotton 2y agoThe US already invaded a commonwealth country with the British Queen as head of state: Grenada in 1983.
- aeim 2y agowell, after all we've been through together, i expect the french might find the opportunity for us to "owe them one, publicly" quite irresistible... (which is significant because, "after all they went through the last few times", their "find out" policy is a little punchier than most) and i don't think that anyone really wants that course of events...
- scotty79 2y agoWhat's more embarrasing is that the only time article 5 was activated was for US when they got attacked on 9/11
- simion314 2y ago[flagged]
- DamnYuppie 2y ago[flagged]
- simion314 2y ago[flagged]
- DamnYuppie 2y ago[flagged]
- myk9001 2y ago[flagged]
- DamnYuppie 2y ago[flagged]
- Hikikomori 2y agoThe only farce would be the US.