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There are probably better sources that go deeper, but here’s one I just got from a quick search (https://www.npr.org/2025/02/27/nx-s1-5311609/tesla-sales-europe

There are probably better sources that go deeper, but here’s one I just got from a quick search (https://www.npr.org/2025/02/27/nx-s1-5311609/tesla-sales-europe https://www.npr.org/2025/02/27/nx-s1-5311609/tesla-sales-eur...) > In January, according to the ACEA data, Tesla clocked the largest — by far — decrease in sales of any auto manufacturer in Europe. The largest increase, at 36.8%, was for SAIC Motor, a Chinese automaker whose brands include MG. > In January, SAIC Motor sold more than twice as many vehicles in Europe as Tesla did, according to the ACEA data.

rsynnott 2y ago
Yeah, so SAIC is 2.3% of the _total_ car market, up from 1.7%. Tesla is 1% down from 1.8%. So if SAIC only made BEVs, then it would indeed be one of the bigger sellers of electric cars. However, SAIC makes lots of things. SAIC/MG is not in the top ten BEV brands for Jan 2025. (This seems to have been a common mistake made in reporting, and people often do think of MG as a BEV brand, but it actually sells a lot of hybrids, too.)
- blackeyeblitzar 2y ago
  So not purely electric but they have batteries and motors in them - is that the distinction you’re making? Are you also disagreeing that car sales are shifting mostly to cheap Chinese vehicles not European or American brands? To me it still looks like if people are moving away from Tesla for political reasons, they apparently align with the CCP. Which doesn’t make sense to me since China is a dictatorship.
  - rsynnott 2y ago
    I am disagreeing with that, yes. If you look at BEV sales, there are no Chinese vendors in the top ten; looks like the Tesla sales went to BMW, VW AG, and Toyota. Maybe Nissan to some extent. Tesla sales would generally shift to other BEVs, not hybrids. MG is basically just noise in the broader market. Like, a whole 2.3%! One piece of context that you may be missing is that hybrids are the single biggest chunk of the European market, about 40% (I gather they’re way smaller in the US), so MG’s 2.3% isn’t hugely impressive.
    - blackeyeblitzar 2y ago
      Why do you think Tesla sales would shift to other BEVs not other types of cars? I feel like this is more about the whole car market and where sales are going. Is there data showing an equivalent increase in BEV sales specifically from European or American brands that equals Tesla’s lost sales?
      - rsynnott 2y ago
        Electric car sales are up in Europe year on year. Tesla sales are down. Chinese cars are not a significant part of the BEV market. I mean, come on, now, do the maths.

rsynnott 2y ago

Yeah, so SAIC is 2.3% of the _total_ car market, up from 1.7%. Tesla is 1% down from 1.8%. So if SAIC only made BEVs, then it would indeed be one of the bigger sellers of electric cars. However, SAIC makes lots of things. SAIC/MG is not in the top ten BEV brands for Jan 2025. (This seems to have been a common mistake made in reporting, and people often do think of MG as a BEV brand, but it actually sells a lot of hybrids, too.)

blackeyeblitzar 2y ago
So not purely electric but they have batteries and motors in them - is that the distinction you’re making? Are you also disagreeing that car sales are shifting mostly to cheap Chinese vehicles not European or American brands? To me it still looks like if people are moving away from Tesla for political reasons, they apparently align with the CCP. Which doesn’t make sense to me since China is a dictatorship.
- rsynnott 2y ago
  I am disagreeing with that, yes. If you look at BEV sales, there are no Chinese vendors in the top ten; looks like the Tesla sales went to BMW, VW AG, and Toyota. Maybe Nissan to some extent. Tesla sales would generally shift to other BEVs, not hybrids. MG is basically just noise in the broader market. Like, a whole 2.3%! One piece of context that you may be missing is that hybrids are the single biggest chunk of the European market, about 40% (I gather they’re way smaller in the US), so MG’s 2.3% isn’t hugely impressive.
  - blackeyeblitzar 2y ago
    Why do you think Tesla sales would shift to other BEVs not other types of cars? I feel like this is more about the whole car market and where sales are going. Is there data showing an equivalent increase in BEV sales specifically from European or American brands that equals Tesla’s lost sales?
    - rsynnott 2y ago
      Electric car sales are up in Europe year on year. Tesla sales are down. Chinese cars are not a significant part of the BEV market. I mean, come on, now, do the maths.