4 ms·

trump sets the direction of SEC enforcement and he's made it clear that he thinks he (and everyone else) should be able to rob normal people via cryptocurrency.

westurner 2y ago
So do we blame Biden or Trump for delisting XRP, or is SEC respectably independent? What about CFTC and FTC and the CAT Consolidated Audit Trail; are collectibles over 10K exempt from KYC and AML there too? (By comparison, banks put days-long holds on large checks.)
- heartbreak 2y ago
  The SEC was respectably independent until a few days ago. https://www.whitehouse.gov/presidential-actions/2025/02/ensuring-accountability-for-all-agencies/ https://www.whitehouse.gov/presidential-actions/2025/02/ensu...
- myvoiceismypass 2y ago
  Why exactly would Biden take any blame here?
  - zdragnar 2y ago
    Operation Chokepoint 2.0, presumably
- rayiner 2y ago
  There's no such thing as an "independent" executive-branch agency. Congress can't by law create new branches of government.
  - hollerith 2y ago
    Is that really true: isn't the Federal Reserve (intentionally designed to be) very independent from both Congress and the White House?
    - SAI_Peregrinus 2y ago
      The Federal Reserve is a bit odd since it's a mix of private corporations & public governance. The Federal Reserve Board of Governors (BOG) is part of the government, the Federal Reserve Banks are private corporations whose officer's salaries are approved by the BOG but whose officers are elected by the Member Banks (banks in the US are required to be members). The Federal Open Market Committee (FOMC) is a mix of the BOG & some of the presidents of the various Federal Reserve Banks. So the BOG isn't independent of the executive branch (it legally can't be), but the FOMC is partly independent since it's a mix of executive branch employees & private bank employees.
      - rayiner 2y ago
        That's generally correct, but the issue is more about what kinds of powers are being exercised. Congress can create government-owned corporations, like Amtrak. Those corporations can function independently, insofar as they are not exercising executive powers. The core function of the Fed isn't an executive power. It's not enforcing the law, or interacting with foreign countries. It's a bank that lends to other banks, and influences the market through that economic function. That's not an executive power and doesn't need to be subject to executive control. The Fed also performs some executive functions (promulgating and enforcing various regulations). I'd argue those must be under executive control. But that doesn't address the Fed's core interest-rate-setting function.
        westurner 2y ago
        The recent tariff spat by the tantrum thrower is supposably justified because of the drug overdose rate. All lives matter. List of causes of death by rate: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_causes_of_death_by_rate https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_causes_of_death_by_rat... : > Substance abuse: 0.58 % What about the the other 99.4 % of the causes of death, in terms of federal priorities? What about NIH and NSF funding for medical sciences research? /? tariff authorization: https://tinyurl.com/certainplansforusall https://tinyurl.com/certainplansforusall "Are Drinking Straws Dangerous? (2017)" https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=43041625 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=43041625 /? plastic straws executive order: https://www.google.com/search?q=plastic+straws+executive+order https://www.google.com/search?q=plastic+straws+executive+ord... The recently proposed budget would increase the deficit by 16 trillion dollars on 40 trillion?
  - westurner 2y ago
    Is an Amendment to the Constitution necessary to limit a right according to disability or to create an independent agency which is independent from the Executive (Justice), Legislative, and Judicial branches? Define "Independent Agency"? GSA General Services Administration: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/General_Services_Administration https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/General_Services_Administratio... : > The General Services Administration (GSA) is an independent agency of the United States government established in 1949 to help manage and support the basic functioning of federal agencies. Independent agencies of the United States federal government: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Independent_agencies_of_the_United_States_federal_government https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Independent_agencies_of_the_Un... : > In the United States federal government, independent agencies are agencies that exist outside the federal executive departments (those headed by a Cabinet secretary) and the Executive Office of the President. [1] In a narrower sense, the term refers only to those independent agencies that, while considered part of the executive branch, have regulatory or rulemaking authority and are insulated from presidential control, usually because the president's power to dismiss the agency head or a member is limited. > Established through separate statutes passed by Congress, each respective statutory grant of authority defines the goals the agency must work towards, as well as what substantive areas, if any, over which it may have the power of rulemaking. These agency rules (or regulations), when in force, have the power of federal law. [2] However, like Acts of Congress and Executive Orders, such rules are not Constitutional Amendments. > Examples of independent agencies: These agencies are not represented in the cabinet and are not part of the Executive Office of the president: > [ Amtrak, CIA, FCC, FDIC, FEC, Federal Reserve, FERC, FTC, CFTC, SSA, TVA, NASA, NARA, OPM, ]
    - rayiner 2y ago
      > Define "Independent Agency"? I said independent executive-branch agency. The very first sentence of Article II says: "The executive Power shall be vested in a President of the United States of America." Congress can't create an agency that exercises "the executive Power" that's independent of the President. In the same way that Congress can't create an unelected mini-Congress that enacts laws binding on citizens, and can't create courts outside the judiciary branch that can convict people for federal crimes. > [ Amtrak, CIA, FCC, FDIC, FEC, Federal Reserve, FERC, FTC, CFTC, SSA, TVA, NASA, NARA, OPM, ] These entities all differ in whether they're exercising "executive power" or not. Amtrak doesn't meaningfully exercise executive power. Congress can provide for Amtrak to be independent of the President's control. Or to use another example, Congress could probably create a bank that provides student loans that's independent of Presidential control. But the SEC is a quintessential executive-branch agency. It enacts rules that interpret the securities laws and can prosecute people for violations of securities laws.
duxup 2y ago
Rob Trump or a crony and I bet the rules of the game change fast. These people do not have principles.
- sjsdaiuasgdia 2y ago
  You are correct, that follows the pattern of Wilhoit's Law: “Conservatism consists of exactly one proposition, to wit: There must be in-groups whom the law protects but does not bind, alongside out-groups whom the law binds but does not protect.”
- rayiner 2y ago
  Collectible dolls aren't SEC regulated as investments. But they're still subject to laws protecting property rights.
  - westurner 2y ago
    Jeff Foxworthy, a comedian, once said: > Sophisticated people invest their money in stock portfolios. > Rednecks invest their money in commemorative plates. Are NFTs or memecoins more similar to (NASCAR) commemorative plates?
    - rayiner 2y ago
      That is the perfect analogy both for what NFTs are and who buys them. I’m stealing that.
  - westurner 2y ago
    Collectibles are also subject to financial reporting requirements that apply according to the USD value at time of purchase and sale. As I said before in the past regarding "Elephant in the room: Quantum computers will destroy Bitcoin" https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=43188345#43188777 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=43188345#43188777 : > The market does not appear to cost infosec value, risk, or technical debt into cryptoasset prices. > PQ or non-PQ does not predict asset price in 2025-02. But what about DOGE?

westurner 2y ago

So do we blame Biden or Trump for delisting XRP, or is SEC respectably independent? What about CFTC and FTC and the CAT Consolidated Audit Trail; are collectibles over 10K exempt from KYC and AML there too? (By comparison, banks put days-long holds on large checks.)

heartbreak 2y ago
The SEC was respectably independent until a few days ago. https://www.whitehouse.gov/presidential-actions/2025/02/ensuring-accountability-for-all-agencies/ https://www.whitehouse.gov/presidential-actions/2025/02/ensu...
myvoiceismypass 2y ago
Why exactly would Biden take any blame here?
- zdragnar 2y ago
  Operation Chokepoint 2.0, presumably
rayiner 2y ago
There's no such thing as an "independent" executive-branch agency. Congress can't by law create new branches of government.
- hollerith 2y ago
  Is that really true: isn't the Federal Reserve (intentionally designed to be) very independent from both Congress and the White House?
  - SAI_Peregrinus 2y ago
    The Federal Reserve is a bit odd since it's a mix of private corporations & public governance. The Federal Reserve Board of Governors (BOG) is part of the government, the Federal Reserve Banks are private corporations whose officer's salaries are approved by the BOG but whose officers are elected by the Member Banks (banks in the US are required to be members). The Federal Open Market Committee (FOMC) is a mix of the BOG & some of the presidents of the various Federal Reserve Banks. So the BOG isn't independent of the executive branch (it legally can't be), but the FOMC is partly independent since it's a mix of executive branch employees & private bank employees.
    - rayiner 2y ago
      That's generally correct, but the issue is more about what kinds of powers are being exercised. Congress can create government-owned corporations, like Amtrak. Those corporations can function independently, insofar as they are not exercising executive powers. The core function of the Fed isn't an executive power. It's not enforcing the law, or interacting with foreign countries. It's a bank that lends to other banks, and influences the market through that economic function. That's not an executive power and doesn't need to be subject to executive control. The Fed also performs some executive functions (promulgating and enforcing various regulations). I'd argue those must be under executive control. But that doesn't address the Fed's core interest-rate-setting function.
      - westurner 2y ago
        The recent tariff spat by the tantrum thrower is supposably justified because of the drug overdose rate. All lives matter. List of causes of death by rate: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_causes_of_death_by_rate https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_causes_of_death_by_rat... : > Substance abuse: 0.58 % What about the the other 99.4 % of the causes of death, in terms of federal priorities? What about NIH and NSF funding for medical sciences research? /? tariff authorization: https://tinyurl.com/certainplansforusall https://tinyurl.com/certainplansforusall "Are Drinking Straws Dangerous? (2017)" https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=43041625 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=43041625 /? plastic straws executive order: https://www.google.com/search?q=plastic+straws+executive+order https://www.google.com/search?q=plastic+straws+executive+ord... The recently proposed budget would increase the deficit by 16 trillion dollars on 40 trillion?
- westurner 2y ago
  Is an Amendment to the Constitution necessary to limit a right according to disability or to create an independent agency which is independent from the Executive (Justice), Legislative, and Judicial branches? Define "Independent Agency"? GSA General Services Administration: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/General_Services_Administration https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/General_Services_Administratio... : > The General Services Administration (GSA) is an independent agency of the United States government established in 1949 to help manage and support the basic functioning of federal agencies. Independent agencies of the United States federal government: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Independent_agencies_of_the_United_States_federal_government https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Independent_agencies_of_the_Un... : > In the United States federal government, independent agencies are agencies that exist outside the federal executive departments (those headed by a Cabinet secretary) and the Executive Office of the President. [1] In a narrower sense, the term refers only to those independent agencies that, while considered part of the executive branch, have regulatory or rulemaking authority and are insulated from presidential control, usually because the president's power to dismiss the agency head or a member is limited. > Established through separate statutes passed by Congress, each respective statutory grant of authority defines the goals the agency must work towards, as well as what substantive areas, if any, over which it may have the power of rulemaking. These agency rules (or regulations), when in force, have the power of federal law. [2] However, like Acts of Congress and Executive Orders, such rules are not Constitutional Amendments. > Examples of independent agencies: These agencies are not represented in the cabinet and are not part of the Executive Office of the president: > [ Amtrak, CIA, FCC, FDIC, FEC, Federal Reserve, FERC, FTC, CFTC, SSA, TVA, NASA, NARA, OPM, ]
  - rayiner 2y ago
    > Define "Independent Agency"? I said independent executive-branch agency. The very first sentence of Article II says: "The executive Power shall be vested in a President of the United States of America." Congress can't create an agency that exercises "the executive Power" that's independent of the President. In the same way that Congress can't create an unelected mini-Congress that enacts laws binding on citizens, and can't create courts outside the judiciary branch that can convict people for federal crimes. > [ Amtrak, CIA, FCC, FDIC, FEC, Federal Reserve, FERC, FTC, CFTC, SSA, TVA, NASA, NARA, OPM, ] These entities all differ in whether they're exercising "executive power" or not. Amtrak doesn't meaningfully exercise executive power. Congress can provide for Amtrak to be independent of the President's control. Or to use another example, Congress could probably create a bank that provides student loans that's independent of Presidential control. But the SEC is a quintessential executive-branch agency. It enacts rules that interpret the securities laws and can prosecute people for violations of securities laws.

duxup 2y ago

Rob Trump or a crony and I bet the rules of the game change fast. These people do not have principles.

sjsdaiuasgdia 2y ago
You are correct, that follows the pattern of Wilhoit's Law: “Conservatism consists of exactly one proposition, to wit: There must be in-groups whom the law protects but does not bind, alongside out-groups whom the law binds but does not protect.”
rayiner 2y ago
Collectible dolls aren't SEC regulated as investments. But they're still subject to laws protecting property rights.
- westurner 2y ago
  Jeff Foxworthy, a comedian, once said: > Sophisticated people invest their money in stock portfolios. > Rednecks invest their money in commemorative plates. Are NFTs or memecoins more similar to (NASCAR) commemorative plates?
  - rayiner 2y ago
    That is the perfect analogy both for what NFTs are and who buys them. I’m stealing that.
- westurner 2y ago
  Collectibles are also subject to financial reporting requirements that apply according to the USD value at time of purchase and sale. As I said before in the past regarding "Elephant in the room: Quantum computers will destroy Bitcoin" https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=43188345#43188777 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=43188345#43188777 : > The market does not appear to cost infosec value, risk, or technical debt into cryptoasset prices. > PQ or non-PQ does not predict asset price in 2025-02. But what about DOGE?