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> Car manufacturers have total control over how users use their devices. If you want to change any of that, you have to start making hardware changes. Cars are

> Car manufacturers have total control over how users use their devices. If you want to change any of that, you have to start making hardware changes. Cars are not phones, and your analogy here is missing the point. No one should have to make hardware modifications because they want to put code on their computer without paying Apple for the privilege. It's not more complicated than that. As I said, you can still have your device in nanny mode if you need it.

carlosjobim 2y ago
Step one: Bore out one of your cylinders. Step two: Your car breaks down, because everything in the engine is connected and finely tuned by the microsecond to function as one integral unit. Step three: Blame Toyota and petition the EU to force Toyota to help you bore out your cylinder. That's pretty much the equivalent. You hackers already have hundreds of Linux distros that are destroyed-on-deilvery because of the endless tinkering and programmer-first mindset. There's Android, Windows, and a plethora of other systems for you. Why can't we have at least one computer (Mac) and one phone (iPhone) that is not destroyed by FOSS and corporate people, and is actually useful for normal people who want to get things done? I don't get it. Why don't you direct your efforts into fixing Linux or Android? Then you wouldn't have to think about Apple and their devices.
- kennysoona 2y ago
  > That's pretty much the equivalent. No, it isn't. Your example is not analogous at all. No one wanting to sideload is talking about blaming Apple for anything, this is purely an invented argument because your excuse of vulnerable family members doesn't hold up. > You hackers already have hundreds of Linux distros that are destroyed-on-deilvery because of the endless tinkering and programmer-first mindset. There's Android, Windows, and a plethora of other systems for you. Irrelevant. An iPhone is a computer, a far more general purpose computer as opposed to something like a playstation (although I believe that should be open enough that people can put Linux on it as with the PS3). It's simply unacceptable that a manufacturer dictates the code we can run on hardware we paid for. That's it. > Why can't we have at least one computer (Mac) and one phone (iPhone) that is not destroyed by FOSS and corporate people Giving people extra freedom isn't 'destroying' anything. Your concerns are incredibly misplaced. > and is actually useful for normal people who want to get things done? Your iPhone won't be any less useful if people can sideload apps on it. Your concerns are incredibly misplaced. > I don't get it. Why don't you direct your efforts into fixing Linux or Android? Then you wouldn't have to think about Apple and their devices. People are not just randomly wanting to tinker, they want to get full functionality out of the hardware they already paid for.
  - carlosjobim 2y ago
    > hardware we paid for. > the hardware they already paid for. There's no rule saying you are only allowed to have one piece of hardware. You can also buy an Android phone for cheap for your uses where you find iOS lacking. There is always an assumption here on HN that you are only allowed one of anything, and that you have to stick to that for life. Whether that is software or hardware. I have Android devices and Apple devices, because even though Android is destroyed as an operating system, there are some hardware features that Apple doesn't offer. I assume you've already heard the argument that nobody is forced to buy Apple hardware, so I'll skip that. Just remember that you can have two phones if you want, or as many as you please.
    - kennysoona 2y ago
      > There's no rule saying you are only allowed to have one piece of hardware. You can also buy an Android phone for cheap for your uses where you find iOS lacking. I. Don't. Care. If I have an iPhone, I should have the right to run whatever the hell I want on it. I own it. That I can buy other phones is completely irrelevant - the point is all hardware for devices like this should be unrestricted to the consumer, period. You've yet to give a convincing counter-argument as to why. So far your attempts have consisted of: - My naive family member might be tricked - Claiming allowing sideloading will ruin the platform for 'normal' people - Now claiming it's not an issue because I can buy an alternative Do you have any argument that can actually defend why someone shouldn't be able to put whatever OS or apps they want on a computer they bought?
      - carlosjobim 2y ago
        > I. Don't. Care. What are you going to do about it? Are you going to kick Tim Cook's ass? > - My naive family member might be tricked That was probably somebody else, I didn't say that. > - Claiming allowing sideloading will ruin the platform for 'normal' people The proof is in the pudding: Every other platform is destroyed, because they are made chiefly for corporate and for programmers. Since there is one platform that is actually good, among hundreds of alternatives, they probably know what they're doing and should continue doing that. > Do you have any argument that can actually defend why someone shouldn't be able to put whatever OS or apps they want on a computer they bought? You can put whatever OS or apps on any device from Apple, if you have the skills. If not, buy something else. Or try to kick Tim Cook in the ass.

carlosjobim 2y ago

Step one: Bore out one of your cylinders. Step two: Your car breaks down, because everything in the engine is connected and finely tuned by the microsecond to function as one integral unit. Step three: Blame Toyota and petition the EU to force Toyota to help you bore out your cylinder. That's pretty much the equivalent. You hackers already have hundreds of Linux distros that are destroyed-on-deilvery because of the endless tinkering and programmer-first mindset. There's Android, Windows, and a plethora of other systems for you. Why can't we have at least one computer (Mac) and one phone (iPhone) that is not destroyed by FOSS and corporate people, and is actually useful for normal people who want to get things done? I don't get it. Why don't you direct your efforts into fixing Linux or Android? Then you wouldn't have to think about Apple and their devices.

kennysoona 2y ago
> That's pretty much the equivalent. No, it isn't. Your example is not analogous at all. No one wanting to sideload is talking about blaming Apple for anything, this is purely an invented argument because your excuse of vulnerable family members doesn't hold up. > You hackers already have hundreds of Linux distros that are destroyed-on-deilvery because of the endless tinkering and programmer-first mindset. There's Android, Windows, and a plethora of other systems for you. Irrelevant. An iPhone is a computer, a far more general purpose computer as opposed to something like a playstation (although I believe that should be open enough that people can put Linux on it as with the PS3). It's simply unacceptable that a manufacturer dictates the code we can run on hardware we paid for. That's it. > Why can't we have at least one computer (Mac) and one phone (iPhone) that is not destroyed by FOSS and corporate people Giving people extra freedom isn't 'destroying' anything. Your concerns are incredibly misplaced. > and is actually useful for normal people who want to get things done? Your iPhone won't be any less useful if people can sideload apps on it. Your concerns are incredibly misplaced. > I don't get it. Why don't you direct your efforts into fixing Linux or Android? Then you wouldn't have to think about Apple and their devices. People are not just randomly wanting to tinker, they want to get full functionality out of the hardware they already paid for.
- carlosjobim 2y ago
  > hardware we paid for. > the hardware they already paid for. There's no rule saying you are only allowed to have one piece of hardware. You can also buy an Android phone for cheap for your uses where you find iOS lacking. There is always an assumption here on HN that you are only allowed one of anything, and that you have to stick to that for life. Whether that is software or hardware. I have Android devices and Apple devices, because even though Android is destroyed as an operating system, there are some hardware features that Apple doesn't offer. I assume you've already heard the argument that nobody is forced to buy Apple hardware, so I'll skip that. Just remember that you can have two phones if you want, or as many as you please.
  - kennysoona 2y ago
    > There's no rule saying you are only allowed to have one piece of hardware. You can also buy an Android phone for cheap for your uses where you find iOS lacking. I. Don't. Care. If I have an iPhone, I should have the right to run whatever the hell I want on it. I own it. That I can buy other phones is completely irrelevant - the point is all hardware for devices like this should be unrestricted to the consumer, period. You've yet to give a convincing counter-argument as to why. So far your attempts have consisted of: - My naive family member might be tricked - Claiming allowing sideloading will ruin the platform for 'normal' people - Now claiming it's not an issue because I can buy an alternative Do you have any argument that can actually defend why someone shouldn't be able to put whatever OS or apps they want on a computer they bought?
    - carlosjobim 2y ago
      > I. Don't. Care. What are you going to do about it? Are you going to kick Tim Cook's ass? > - My naive family member might be tricked That was probably somebody else, I didn't say that. > - Claiming allowing sideloading will ruin the platform for 'normal' people The proof is in the pudding: Every other platform is destroyed, because they are made chiefly for corporate and for programmers. Since there is one platform that is actually good, among hundreds of alternatives, they probably know what they're doing and should continue doing that. > Do you have any argument that can actually defend why someone shouldn't be able to put whatever OS or apps they want on a computer they bought? You can put whatever OS or apps on any device from Apple, if you have the skills. If not, buy something else. Or try to kick Tim Cook in the ass.