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I personally think integrating an amplifier is a good idea, although I don't think the Q is a great implementation. I would think that - at a given price point

I personally think integrating an amplifier is a good idea, although I don't think the Q is a great implementation. I would think that - at a given price point - a combined box would offer better quality and better feature integration (e.g. volume control, balance etc). Physically, I also don't want a separate amplifier box - can you explain what benefits a separate amplifier box offers vs the integrated approach?

te_chris 14y ago
It's as much an individual preference thing as anything else, but I much prefer high-quality discrete components that I've selected myself. Digital amps have come along a lot recently (see nu-force), but if it were me, I've already got a really good system that I could be tempted to augment with the Nexus Q - so that rules out me and others like me. Then there's the college student argument, but they've probably got a pair of logitech or similar powered computer speakers or an HT-in-a-box system which are more than enough for a party in a flat/hall of residence. At the end of that, I can't really imagine too many people willing to pay all that money for a box which they still have to go and buy a pair of passive speakers for - particularly because the people in the market for passive stereo speakers wouldn't event glance sideways at the nexus q as a serious amp choice.
- justinsb 14y ago
  I definitely agree that at the ultra high end ($1000+) people will want to pick and choose components. I was hoping for a Raspberry-Pi level computer paired with a reasonable amplifier and a reasonable DAC; certainly not competing with top-end discrete components, but well-designed (e.g. to reduce any electrical interference) so that the mass market could get reasonable quality audio. I think the failing of the Q is that the price point ended up in the middle ($300 without speakers), and that the initial functionality was way too limited. I'd hope you could make something with the functionality of the Google TV with a reasonable amp for around $100 - $150 retail (without speakers). I hope someone tries making a device like that, without the Q's quirks (e.g. spherical touch-sensitive box & locked down functionality).
- polshaw 14y ago
  Do you know what the amp in the Q was like? I'm not trying to be accusatory- i just haven't heard sound quality ever mentioned when discussing the Q.
  - justinsb 14y ago
    I have one here and haven't actually wired it up yet to speakers, because it uses banana clip connectors (another slightly odd decision). My guess is that the sound quality is good, but not excellent. Better than computer speakers, better than the cheapest bundled units, nowhere near good enough for audiophiles. But that is only a guess based on what should be achievable. With the limited functionality, it's just too much effort to order banana cables / connectors. I was hoping Google would announce it was now "unlocked" and they were supporting running more apps (the hardware & software are fully capable of running general Android apps with the Android SDK tools, but there's no easy way to interact with the apps). It looks like that's not going to happen now.
    - polshaw 14y ago
      No offence but your 'guess' is not very useful. e: really, is downvoting appropriate here? I can quite easily speculate that i don't think the nexus Q sounds that great (and thats what i'd put my money on), but the electronics exist, and cheap enough, to allow it to potentially sound fantastic. I was hoping someone might have some first hand experience to get better than speculation.
vincentmac 14y ago
I think a lot of people who are interested in these streaming devices have separate component for their AV stack and would rather use their setup rather than the 25W amp in the Q. The other set of consumers would most likely hook the Q up directly to their TVs. The only use case where I would find the integrated amp useful would be in an office, kitchen, or some place similar.
Danieru 14y ago
The best argument I heard was that it is equivalent to having a DVD player in your TV. Or a computer in your car. You end up pairing a long lifespan device with a short lifespan one. One half of the resulting device will get broken or obsolete long before the other half. Moore's law applies to all the devices cell phones have been replacing for the past 5 years. Thus the cell phone is pairing with devices of similar lifespan. An amplifier is a different class of good. Their prices have not plummeted and their lifespans have only gotten better.
- justinsb 14y ago
  Good point, but I think we're talking about throwing away a $25 amplifier when the $50 computer is obsolete. And if the computer is essentially "just" a wireless audio player I'd imagine you can get a solid 5 years out of it without any problem - i.e. it can still run Siri, because the brains are in the cloud. Physically mounting a computer in your $20,000+ 10-year lifespan car when it is totally outclassed by the phone most people carry in their pocket and replace every year or two... I agree that is insanity!
  - hollerith 14y ago
    Well, its not that hard to install and uninstall a car computer, Intel-architecture computers are not outclassed by phones, and there are companies that cater to this niche, e.g., http://mitxpc.com/ http://mitxpc.com/.

te_chris 14y ago

It's as much an individual preference thing as anything else, but I much prefer high-quality discrete components that I've selected myself. Digital amps have come along a lot recently (see nu-force), but if it were me, I've already got a really good system that I could be tempted to augment with the Nexus Q - so that rules out me and others like me. Then there's the college student argument, but they've probably got a pair of logitech or similar powered computer speakers or an HT-in-a-box system which are more than enough for a party in a flat/hall of residence. At the end of that, I can't really imagine too many people willing to pay all that money for a box which they still have to go and buy a pair of passive speakers for - particularly because the people in the market for passive stereo speakers wouldn't event glance sideways at the nexus q as a serious amp choice.

justinsb 14y ago
I definitely agree that at the ultra high end ($1000+) people will want to pick and choose components. I was hoping for a Raspberry-Pi level computer paired with a reasonable amplifier and a reasonable DAC; certainly not competing with top-end discrete components, but well-designed (e.g. to reduce any electrical interference) so that the mass market could get reasonable quality audio. I think the failing of the Q is that the price point ended up in the middle ($300 without speakers), and that the initial functionality was way too limited. I'd hope you could make something with the functionality of the Google TV with a reasonable amp for around $100 - $150 retail (without speakers). I hope someone tries making a device like that, without the Q's quirks (e.g. spherical touch-sensitive box & locked down functionality).
polshaw 14y ago
Do you know what the amp in the Q was like? I'm not trying to be accusatory- i just haven't heard sound quality ever mentioned when discussing the Q.
- justinsb 14y ago
  I have one here and haven't actually wired it up yet to speakers, because it uses banana clip connectors (another slightly odd decision). My guess is that the sound quality is good, but not excellent. Better than computer speakers, better than the cheapest bundled units, nowhere near good enough for audiophiles. But that is only a guess based on what should be achievable. With the limited functionality, it's just too much effort to order banana cables / connectors. I was hoping Google would announce it was now "unlocked" and they were supporting running more apps (the hardware & software are fully capable of running general Android apps with the Android SDK tools, but there's no easy way to interact with the apps). It looks like that's not going to happen now.
  - polshaw 14y ago
    No offence but your 'guess' is not very useful. e: really, is downvoting appropriate here? I can quite easily speculate that i don't think the nexus Q sounds that great (and thats what i'd put my money on), but the electronics exist, and cheap enough, to allow it to potentially sound fantastic. I was hoping someone might have some first hand experience to get better than speculation.

vincentmac 14y ago

I think a lot of people who are interested in these streaming devices have separate component for their AV stack and would rather use their setup rather than the 25W amp in the Q. The other set of consumers would most likely hook the Q up directly to their TVs. The only use case where I would find the integrated amp useful would be in an office, kitchen, or some place similar.

Danieru 14y ago

The best argument I heard was that it is equivalent to having a DVD player in your TV. Or a computer in your car. You end up pairing a long lifespan device with a short lifespan one. One half of the resulting device will get broken or obsolete long before the other half. Moore's law applies to all the devices cell phones have been replacing for the past 5 years. Thus the cell phone is pairing with devices of similar lifespan. An amplifier is a different class of good. Their prices have not plummeted and their lifespans have only gotten better.

justinsb 14y ago
Good point, but I think we're talking about throwing away a $25 amplifier when the $50 computer is obsolete. And if the computer is essentially "just" a wireless audio player I'd imagine you can get a solid 5 years out of it without any problem - i.e. it can still run Siri, because the brains are in the cloud. Physically mounting a computer in your $20,000+ 10-year lifespan car when it is totally outclassed by the phone most people carry in their pocket and replace every year or two... I agree that is insanity!
- hollerith 14y ago
  Well, its not that hard to install and uninstall a car computer, Intel-architecture computers are not outclassed by phones, and there are companies that cater to this niche, e.g., http://mitxpc.com/ http://mitxpc.com/.