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One may object that at the quantum level, the world really is nondeterministic. Epicurus also argued this over 2000 years ago - that sometimes atoms "swerved" u
by NoGravitas 2y ago
One may object that at the quantum level, the world really is nondeterministic. Epicurus also argued this over 2000 years ago - that sometimes atoms "swerved" unpredictably in their movements, accounting for free will. Of course, the counterpoint to this argument is that randomness is not free will any more than determinism is; neither offers any space for agency as something that's causal rather than just experienced.
- koakuma-chan 2y agoIs there evidence that quantum mechanics is not deterministic?
- anon291 2y agoYes, the entirety of the math behind it which says that various quantities are unknowable except as a distribution of probabilities. Various experiments have shown these formulas to be 'real', as in, the alternative deterministic version is untenable unless you make new and equally disturbing assumptions.
- koakuma-chan 2y agoSorry if I’m being ignorant, but let’s say you measured a qubit and it collapsed to a certain state. Now, hypothetically, if you rewind the time and re-measure it, would it collapse to a different state? I think it wouldn’t, and in this sense it is deterministic.
- ianburrell 2y agoYou would see a different state. Quantum mechanics is random. It is possible that there is hidden state that determines the outcome, but there is Bell's Theorem that limits local hidden state and it has been tested by experiment.
- koakuma-chan 2y agoI define deterministic as only having one possible outcome, predictable or not. Here is a proof that quantum mechanics is deterministic: Let there be a time `t`. Let there be a qubit `q`. At the time of `t`, we measured the qubit `q`, and the qubit `q` collapsed to the state of `a`. At the time of `t`, we measured the qubit `q`, and the qubit `q` collapsed to the state of `b`. `a` equals `b`. Quantum mechanics is deterministic.
- ianburrell 2y agoI think you just assumed the result. With quantum mechanics, a and b will be different if could rollback time. Or if made the same measurement with the exact same state. Quantum mechanics is indeterminate and probabilistic. Some of the most brilliant physicists like von Neumann and Bell, who won the Nobel Prize for this work, have proved it. Unless you have something that will win the Nobel Prize, your intuition is wrong. Check out https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quantum_indeterminacy https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quantum_indeterminacy