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> The Moss Landing Power Plant is a natural gas powered electricity generation plant as well as a battery energy storage facility I feel like it's at least mil

> The Moss Landing Power Plant is a natural gas powered electricity generation plant as well as a battery energy storage facility I feel like it's at least mildly weird to actually _colocate_ these. Like, it makes sense that they would be _close_, but probably not right beside each other.

renewiltord 2y ago
Could you pass environmental review on a new site? Besides, putting it anywhere else would ruin that place’s community and cause gentrification.
- itishappy 2y ago
  How do batteries cause gentrification?
  - renewiltord 2y ago
    It’s a very complex and nuanced issue. The literature is replete with examples. And there is even a famous adage that references them: power corrupts.
    - itishappy 2y ago
      Can you share some that you had in mind? My cursory search turned up little.
      - renewiltord 2y ago
        Sure. My rate is in my profile. Is there an email I can invoice?
        itishappy 2y ago
        You'd need to demonstrate competence first, but it's clear you're making stuff up. Have a nice day!
    - JumpCrisscross 2y ago
      Please don’t post AI drivel on HN.
0cf8612b2e1e 2y ago
My understanding is that get the electrical interconnections can be more difficult than the actual plant construction. Building adjacent to existing generation means those connections already exist. Same reason that supposedly solar and wind are being built up on old coal plants.
- rsynnott 2y ago
  Sure, it's beneficial to be adjacent, but you can have a decent _gap_ without much trouble.
  - s1artibartfast 2y ago
    What is the current gap, and why would it matter? Seems like approval would be the main advantage unless you want to spend 10 years on environmentally permitting before you break ground
    - genewitch 2y ago
      It's California, it took 10 years regardless.
umeshunni 2y ago
I assume the purpose is to store the excess generated power for high demand times.
- rsynnott 2y ago
  Oh, sure, but you could do that while allowing a safe distance. You do want it _close_ for ease of interconnection, but a safety gap should be feasible (for instance, offshore wind sometimes has a shore battery installation, but it's generally on the shore, not actually out with the turbines.)
  - rtkwe 2y ago
    That's probably for the cost of building a battery platform and also the actual tie in to the wider grid will be on land anyways so you're still building it close to the tie in point, the generation is just lightly distributed due to the nature of offshore wind.
  - ianburrell 2y ago
    From looking at satellite, they have some batteries right next to power plant and some further away in facility. I don't know why they put some nearby when they have space further away.
toast0 2y ago
It doesn't seem unreasonable to me if it's a demand response generator (peaker)... If demand is low, charge batteries. If demand is high, drain batteries. If demand is higher than batteries can sustain, run gas. If there's a subsidy for putting battery electric power on the grid, when batteries are low and demand is also low, run gas to charge batteries locally and then supply that to the grid later to get the subsidy. Only the last part requires colocation, but it's probably easier to get one power plant parcel zoned and one power plant hooked up to the grid, and having both energy storage and a gas peaker together might bring it up the connection prioritization list because it addresses multiple problems for grid operation.
christina97 2y ago
A peaker gas plant basically fulfills the same function as a grid battery. The grid is built to have a peaker plant there, and it’s operated by a company that bids for generation at this location and has experience in it. I think it more than makes sense.
- wolfram74 2y ago
  This is a thing I've been curious about lately, how close do they have to be? 100 meters? 50 meters? 10? Grid tie ins at a certain point get way beyond my V=IR and V^2/R=W intuitions. Given the length of the interconnect queue these days, I'm assuming a lot of industrial/large power draw systems will start to just colocate with enough pv+wind+storage to have a local grid with a very small if any connection to the exterior grid. Obviously it's a cost, but it's one less action item on the set up process and one less possible area for delay, there will be cases where the cost pencils out.

renewiltord 2y ago

Could you pass environmental review on a new site? Besides, putting it anywhere else would ruin that place’s community and cause gentrification.

itishappy 2y ago
How do batteries cause gentrification?
- renewiltord 2y ago
  It’s a very complex and nuanced issue. The literature is replete with examples. And there is even a famous adage that references them: power corrupts.
  - itishappy 2y ago
    Can you share some that you had in mind? My cursory search turned up little.
    - renewiltord 2y ago
      Sure. My rate is in my profile. Is there an email I can invoice?
      - itishappy 2y ago
        You'd need to demonstrate competence first, but it's clear you're making stuff up. Have a nice day!
  - JumpCrisscross 2y ago
    Please don’t post AI drivel on HN.

0cf8612b2e1e 2y ago

My understanding is that get the electrical interconnections can be more difficult than the actual plant construction. Building adjacent to existing generation means those connections already exist. Same reason that supposedly solar and wind are being built up on old coal plants.

rsynnott 2y ago
Sure, it's beneficial to be adjacent, but you can have a decent _gap_ without much trouble.
- s1artibartfast 2y ago
  What is the current gap, and why would it matter? Seems like approval would be the main advantage unless you want to spend 10 years on environmentally permitting before you break ground
  - genewitch 2y ago
    It's California, it took 10 years regardless.

umeshunni 2y ago

I assume the purpose is to store the excess generated power for high demand times.

rsynnott 2y ago
Oh, sure, but you could do that while allowing a safe distance. You do want it _close_ for ease of interconnection, but a safety gap should be feasible (for instance, offshore wind sometimes has a shore battery installation, but it's generally on the shore, not actually out with the turbines.)
- rtkwe 2y ago
  That's probably for the cost of building a battery platform and also the actual tie in to the wider grid will be on land anyways so you're still building it close to the tie in point, the generation is just lightly distributed due to the nature of offshore wind.
- ianburrell 2y ago
  From looking at satellite, they have some batteries right next to power plant and some further away in facility. I don't know why they put some nearby when they have space further away.

toast0 2y ago

It doesn't seem unreasonable to me if it's a demand response generator (peaker)... If demand is low, charge batteries. If demand is high, drain batteries. If demand is higher than batteries can sustain, run gas. If there's a subsidy for putting battery electric power on the grid, when batteries are low and demand is also low, run gas to charge batteries locally and then supply that to the grid later to get the subsidy. Only the last part requires colocation, but it's probably easier to get one power plant parcel zoned and one power plant hooked up to the grid, and having both energy storage and a gas peaker together might bring it up the connection prioritization list because it addresses multiple problems for grid operation.

christina97 2y ago

A peaker gas plant basically fulfills the same function as a grid battery. The grid is built to have a peaker plant there, and it’s operated by a company that bids for generation at this location and has experience in it. I think it more than makes sense.

wolfram74 2y ago
This is a thing I've been curious about lately, how close do they have to be? 100 meters? 50 meters? 10? Grid tie ins at a certain point get way beyond my V=IR and V^2/R=W intuitions. Given the length of the interconnect queue these days, I'm assuming a lot of industrial/large power draw systems will start to just colocate with enough pv+wind+storage to have a local grid with a very small if any connection to the exterior grid. Obviously it's a cost, but it's one less action item on the set up process and one less possible area for delay, there will be cases where the cost pencils out.