3 ms·

Reddit co-founder says Meta end to third-party fact-checking is 'pragmatic'

7 points by belter 2y ago

actionfromafar 2y ago
That's one way to put it. Some other words are, spineless, amoral and possibly fearful. It is after all FB we are talking about.
- deleted 2y ago
  [deleted]
_mitterpach 2y ago
Honestly, that's fair, as long as you move to something better. That will probably be a system akin to Community Notes. The only thing to be aware of is the move from auditable, known third party whose biases are known, towards an 'objective' black-box AI, which was programmed by somebody with biases. I think it's okay to read an opinion, or a fact-check by someone you do not necessarily agree with, as long as the biases are known. I know that right-leaning fact-checkers might have a different interpretation of facts than left-leaning ones. That seems natural and okay. But what leanings do ChatGPT, Claude and others have? The answer might differ based on who you ask, which day of the year it is, and who is currently in administration.
- belter 2y ago
  > I know that right-leaning fact-checkers might have a different interpretation of facts than left-leaning ones. That seems natural and okay. Read this phrase again, and realize how extraordinary it is: "... might have a different interpretation of facts..." Can you provide an example of these facts that is ok to interpret differently?
  - gadders 2y ago
    - Hunter Biden's laptop - COVID origins - Biden's mental state regarding dementia etc - Whether sex is the same as gender
    - belter 2y ago
      I am speaking about facts not political spin. - Hunter Biden's laptop https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hunter_Biden_laptop_controversy https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hunter_Biden_laptop_controvers... Tell me what is wrong above. - COVID origins https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Origin_of_SARS-CoV-2 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Origin_of_SARS-CoV-2 If you have any scientific facts to share with the world, please update the page above. - Biden's mental state regarding dementia etc "Donald Trump, Joe Biden and dementia: Why not to diagnose from a distance" - https://www.alzheimers.org.uk/blog/donald-trump-joe-biden-dementia https://www.alzheimers.org.uk/blog/donald-trump-joe-biden-de... - Whether sex is the same as gender I don't think any fact checker is looking to grade on these. And it looks like you are on purpose choosing areas that are above your pay grade. What is next? When life starts? ;-)
      - gadders 2y ago
        Thank you for giving the current state, post recent elections. Rather than a selective memory, perhaps you could recall when people were getting booted off social media and fact checked for daring to claim that COVID could have been man made etc 4 or 5 years ago.
        belter 2y ago
        > booted off social media and fact checked for daring to claim that COVID could have been man made etc 4 or 5 years That sounds like a fact that could be checked. Do you have an example?
        gadders 2y ago
        https://thehill.com/changing-america/well-being/prevention-cures/516754-twitter-suspends-account-of-chinese-virologist/ https://thehill.com/changing-america/well-being/prevention-c...
  - jfengel 2y ago
    Different interpretations of facts are reasonable. Different facts are not. It's a lot like "you're entitled to your own opinions but not your own facts", but with a somewhat different spin. An opinion is a preference, a feeling. An interpretation is a story that puts the facts together in a coherent through-line. Quantum mechanics is a famous example. The facts are not only the data points of experiments, but the equations. They are sufficiently well-tested to be treated as simple matters of fact, and no physicist disagrees. But there are various interpretations: many-worlds, Copenhagen, consistent histories, "shut up and calculate". They all agree on the outcomes of experiments. They differ in how we think about those outcomes. They all take the equations and say, "This is the part that is important and real, and here is how we understand the rest of it." Unfortunately, we are now accusing each other of ignoring basic facts. At least one side must be right about that; it's conceivable that both sides are. Usually, we resolve such a dispute via democracy, but that breaks down when the disagreement becomes existential.
casenmgreen 2y ago
A coup is in progress, now. Courts and judges are next - Elon calling for impeachment of judges. Silencing and compliance of press happen as well (WaPo, NBC, now FB). Military top brass replaced by nobodies. Top lawyers fired to prevent slowing down use of military force for oppression. Congress and Senate both subverted by enough voters being deceived and believing Donald, such that elections no longer genuine; not well-informed. Once courts/judges done, that's it. There will be laws, but they will not be enforced, and Donald gathers all power into his hands. Now you need a revolution, to recover.

7 points by belter 2y ago

That's one way to put it. Some other words are, spineless, amoral and possibly fearful. It is after all FB we are talking about.

deleted 2y ago
[deleted]

_mitterpach 2y ago

Honestly, that's fair, as long as you move to something better. That will probably be a system akin to Community Notes. The only thing to be aware of is the move from auditable, known third party whose biases are known, towards an 'objective' black-box AI, which was programmed by somebody with biases. I think it's okay to read an opinion, or a fact-check by someone you do not necessarily agree with, as long as the biases are known. I know that right-leaning fact-checkers might have a different interpretation of facts than left-leaning ones. That seems natural and okay. But what leanings do ChatGPT, Claude and others have? The answer might differ based on who you ask, which day of the year it is, and who is currently in administration.

belter 2y ago
> I know that right-leaning fact-checkers might have a different interpretation of facts than left-leaning ones. That seems natural and okay. Read this phrase again, and realize how extraordinary it is: "... might have a different interpretation of facts..." Can you provide an example of these facts that is ok to interpret differently?
- gadders 2y ago
  - Hunter Biden's laptop - COVID origins - Biden's mental state regarding dementia etc - Whether sex is the same as gender
  - belter 2y ago
    I am speaking about facts not political spin. - Hunter Biden's laptop https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hunter_Biden_laptop_controversy https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hunter_Biden_laptop_controvers... Tell me what is wrong above. - COVID origins https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Origin_of_SARS-CoV-2 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Origin_of_SARS-CoV-2 If you have any scientific facts to share with the world, please update the page above. - Biden's mental state regarding dementia etc "Donald Trump, Joe Biden and dementia: Why not to diagnose from a distance" - https://www.alzheimers.org.uk/blog/donald-trump-joe-biden-dementia https://www.alzheimers.org.uk/blog/donald-trump-joe-biden-de... - Whether sex is the same as gender I don't think any fact checker is looking to grade on these. And it looks like you are on purpose choosing areas that are above your pay grade. What is next? When life starts? ;-)
    - gadders 2y ago
      Thank you for giving the current state, post recent elections. Rather than a selective memory, perhaps you could recall when people were getting booted off social media and fact checked for daring to claim that COVID could have been man made etc 4 or 5 years ago.
      - belter 2y ago
        > booted off social media and fact checked for daring to claim that COVID could have been man made etc 4 or 5 years That sounds like a fact that could be checked. Do you have an example?
        gadders 2y ago
        https://thehill.com/changing-america/well-being/prevention-cures/516754-twitter-suspends-account-of-chinese-virologist/ https://thehill.com/changing-america/well-being/prevention-c...
- jfengel 2y ago
  Different interpretations of facts are reasonable. Different facts are not. It's a lot like "you're entitled to your own opinions but not your own facts", but with a somewhat different spin. An opinion is a preference, a feeling. An interpretation is a story that puts the facts together in a coherent through-line. Quantum mechanics is a famous example. The facts are not only the data points of experiments, but the equations. They are sufficiently well-tested to be treated as simple matters of fact, and no physicist disagrees. But there are various interpretations: many-worlds, Copenhagen, consistent histories, "shut up and calculate". They all agree on the outcomes of experiments. They differ in how we think about those outcomes. They all take the equations and say, "This is the part that is important and real, and here is how we understand the rest of it." Unfortunately, we are now accusing each other of ignoring basic facts. At least one side must be right about that; it's conceivable that both sides are. Usually, we resolve such a dispute via democracy, but that breaks down when the disagreement becomes existential.

casenmgreen 2y ago

A coup is in progress, now. Courts and judges are next - Elon calling for impeachment of judges. Silencing and compliance of press happen as well (WaPo, NBC, now FB). Military top brass replaced by nobodies. Top lawyers fired to prevent slowing down use of military force for oppression. Congress and Senate both subverted by enough voters being deceived and believing Donald, such that elections no longer genuine; not well-informed. Once courts/judges done, that's it. There will be laws, but they will not be enforced, and Donald gathers all power into his hands. Now you need a revolution, to recover.