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Many cars monitor the driver now, often with facial recognition enabled cameras. Mazda, infinity, Hyundai/genesis, others. It feels a bit like every brand will

Many cars monitor the driver now, often with facial recognition enabled cameras. Mazda, infinity, Hyundai/genesis, others. It feels a bit like every brand will end up with invasive tech, ads, and subscriptions.

palata 2y ago
> It feels a bit like every brand will end up with invasive tech, ads, and subscriptions. It's bad enough as it is, and consumers should try and fight against that by not buying those cars. Especially now that we see that the CEO can turn fascist and feel entitled to do whatever he pleases with the data. How long before federal employees get fired because their Tesla showed that they arrived late to work? At the very least, don't buy Teslas. At this point that's probably one of the riskiest choices.
- pavlov 2y ago
  Americans liked to laugh at Europe's data regulations, but they sure are effective at preventing this specific problem of "CEO can turn fascist and feel entitled to do whatever he pleases with the data." Which surely has some connection to why Musk (like many other Silicon Valley billionaires) hates the EU so much.
  - NetOpWibby 2y ago
    America adheres to the FAFO principle; fuck around and find out. Things tend to get demonstrably worse before it gets better. SIGH
    - chneu 2y ago
      You can always count on Americans to do the right thing; after they've tried everything else.
      - DFHippie 2y ago
        Given a long enough timeline you can count on anyone to do the right thing. It's the balance of right to wrong which is more interesting. By this measure I don't think Americans are particularly exceptional. Also, whether people choose to do the right thing is less interesting if they have no choice.
        chneu 2y ago
        The quote means let americans fail because they'll get there eventually. After they've stubbornly tried everything else. American's believe we're exceptional and dont have to learn from others. We'll do it OUR WAY and it'll work. We'll force it if we have to. This isn't something most people are consciously aware of, but it's something you can notice if you start to look for.
  - GJim 2y ago
    > Americans liked to laugh at Europe's data regulations They aren't laughing. On the contrary, the surveillance capitalists (many of which frequent this site) are vocal because they are spreading FUD. After all, sensible data protection laws affect their business models.
  - palata 2y ago
    The thing I don't get is that the fascists running the state still have the support of the people. It's amazing to see a country that loves seeing themselves as "kings of democracy" so much, while at the same time proving over and over again that they don't really understand democracy.
- DanielHB 2y ago
  Remember when all we worried about was when government was tracking/spying on you? With illegal phone wiretaps and hidden microphones. Good times... Now we have to worry about the government AND the big tech companies AND their crazy CEOs as the lines get blurred between the three.
  - b112 2y ago
    Unless someone is 60, you don't know a time when companies haven't been spying on you. People were worried about Google in the early 2000s, after they bought doubleclick. There's nothing new here, except a continuous walk along the same path. Data collection was a big trend of the 80s. Credit bureaus and points cards were the big start. If you go into a forum about cars, you can see people asking about 5 or 6 years ago, to turn off telemetry in their cars. They are mocked relentlessly. Then the insurance issue came to light, where car companies were caught selling data without consent. Suddenly, everyone cared. Point is, the average person hasn't the time, or the inclination to understand, or even care... until it hurts them. Of course, by the time the hurting happens, it's too late... So give them pennies (point cards) and they'll be happy to be tracked. From what I've noticed in my life, many people are incapable of being aware of dangers, without perspective. Thus, to survive mentally, they must dismiss dangers they cannot control. They deride concerns, to protect themselves menrally. I'd say at least 50% of the population is like this.
mdhb 2y ago
This isn’t normal. Hand waving it away as nothing like you seem to be doing here comes across as extremely weird I have to be honest.
- pasquinelli 2y ago
  i don't read it that way. i take it more they're saying the problem is broader than just tesla.
- fastball 2y ago
  These are not fully autonomous systems and we live in a very litigious society. How do you propose these driverless / driver assist systems work?
- appointment 2y ago
  Driver attention monitoring is very normal and required for any car with significant Assisted Driving technology, which is likely to be all new cars soon. I expect safety scoring schemes like Euro NCAP continue to give AD systems higher and higher weights in their scores over time.
- fc417fc802 2y ago
  A deadly piece of equipment monitoring a safety critical part of the control system (ie the driver) is totally normal and expected. That same piece of equipment surreptitiously phoning home to the manufacturer with the data is the part that isn't acceptable. I want my car to monitor both me and the surroundings. I also want to be able to do things like speak in natural language to my phone, use my phone camera to OCR and translate documents from a foreign language, and all sorts of other 90s sci-fi stuff. Unfortunately the future we were graced with is a dystopian reality where all of this is built on proprietary black boxes that spy on you 24/7. And somehow the government takes no issue with this state of affairs, instead constructing their own data feeds.
oneeyedpigeon 2y ago
How many is many? Are we talking 1% of all cars on the road? 0.1%?
- dambi0 2y ago
  Given this is about new technologies or more accurately the potential misuse of new technology, I think we can infer we are talking newer models of cars rather than cars already on the road.
- hsuduebc2 2y ago
  Even if it would be one percent, eg. every hundreth car that can store IDs and car color of cars passing by then you'r movement could be tracked easily just by being spotted by teslas. Musk has shown he's not a man to be trusted.
  - b112 2y ago
    Musk has shown he's not a man to be trusted. This cracks me up. You're only saying that because he's vocal, and you're aware of him daily. After all, I don't see people commenting on the other 1M CEO, nor aware of what they're doing right now, which do not post on X.
    - dudefeliciano 2y ago
      That is quite the assumption to make, how do you know why they think Musk is not to be trusted? There are many of us who have been saying this for years. And you have to admit, even for him his actions in the last year have been egregious. Also, just because you do not see people complaining about the other 1M CEOs doesn't mean they don't exist.
    - hsuduebc2 2y ago
      Musk isn't untrustworthy just for being vocal. He has too much power and has shown he'll break rules or even the law when it suits him. Someone who is inherently political and wields this much influence without accountability should never be trusted. Being vocal is one thing but constantly attacking someone on x while spreading misinformation or straight up lies doesn't add to ones credibility either.
_kb 2y ago
Ford already has a patent for that [1] and Jeep has already started doing it [2] “by accident”. [1]: https://au.pcmag.com/cars-auto/107185/ford-patents-in-car-advertising-system-that-listens-to-passenger-conversations https://au.pcmag.com/cars-auto/107185/ford-patents-in-car-ad... [2]: https://fortune.com/2025/02/13/jeep-in-car-ads-popup-stellantis-software-revenue/ https://fortune.com/2025/02/13/jeep-in-car-ads-popup-stellan...

palata 2y ago

> It feels a bit like every brand will end up with invasive tech, ads, and subscriptions. It's bad enough as it is, and consumers should try and fight against that by not buying those cars. Especially now that we see that the CEO can turn fascist and feel entitled to do whatever he pleases with the data. How long before federal employees get fired because their Tesla showed that they arrived late to work? At the very least, don't buy Teslas. At this point that's probably one of the riskiest choices.

pavlov 2y ago
Americans liked to laugh at Europe's data regulations, but they sure are effective at preventing this specific problem of "CEO can turn fascist and feel entitled to do whatever he pleases with the data." Which surely has some connection to why Musk (like many other Silicon Valley billionaires) hates the EU so much.
- NetOpWibby 2y ago
  America adheres to the FAFO principle; fuck around and find out. Things tend to get demonstrably worse before it gets better. SIGH
  - chneu 2y ago
    You can always count on Americans to do the right thing; after they've tried everything else.
    - DFHippie 2y ago
      Given a long enough timeline you can count on anyone to do the right thing. It's the balance of right to wrong which is more interesting. By this measure I don't think Americans are particularly exceptional. Also, whether people choose to do the right thing is less interesting if they have no choice.
      - chneu 2y ago
        The quote means let americans fail because they'll get there eventually. After they've stubbornly tried everything else. American's believe we're exceptional and dont have to learn from others. We'll do it OUR WAY and it'll work. We'll force it if we have to. This isn't something most people are consciously aware of, but it's something you can notice if you start to look for.
- GJim 2y ago
  > Americans liked to laugh at Europe's data regulations They aren't laughing. On the contrary, the surveillance capitalists (many of which frequent this site) are vocal because they are spreading FUD. After all, sensible data protection laws affect their business models.
- palata 2y ago
  The thing I don't get is that the fascists running the state still have the support of the people. It's amazing to see a country that loves seeing themselves as "kings of democracy" so much, while at the same time proving over and over again that they don't really understand democracy.
DanielHB 2y ago
Remember when all we worried about was when government was tracking/spying on you? With illegal phone wiretaps and hidden microphones. Good times... Now we have to worry about the government AND the big tech companies AND their crazy CEOs as the lines get blurred between the three.
- b112 2y ago
  Unless someone is 60, you don't know a time when companies haven't been spying on you. People were worried about Google in the early 2000s, after they bought doubleclick. There's nothing new here, except a continuous walk along the same path. Data collection was a big trend of the 80s. Credit bureaus and points cards were the big start. If you go into a forum about cars, you can see people asking about 5 or 6 years ago, to turn off telemetry in their cars. They are mocked relentlessly. Then the insurance issue came to light, where car companies were caught selling data without consent. Suddenly, everyone cared. Point is, the average person hasn't the time, or the inclination to understand, or even care... until it hurts them. Of course, by the time the hurting happens, it's too late... So give them pennies (point cards) and they'll be happy to be tracked. From what I've noticed in my life, many people are incapable of being aware of dangers, without perspective. Thus, to survive mentally, they must dismiss dangers they cannot control. They deride concerns, to protect themselves menrally. I'd say at least 50% of the population is like this.

mdhb 2y ago

This isn’t normal. Hand waving it away as nothing like you seem to be doing here comes across as extremely weird I have to be honest.

pasquinelli 2y ago
i don't read it that way. i take it more they're saying the problem is broader than just tesla.
fastball 2y ago
These are not fully autonomous systems and we live in a very litigious society. How do you propose these driverless / driver assist systems work?
appointment 2y ago
Driver attention monitoring is very normal and required for any car with significant Assisted Driving technology, which is likely to be all new cars soon. I expect safety scoring schemes like Euro NCAP continue to give AD systems higher and higher weights in their scores over time.
fc417fc802 2y ago
A deadly piece of equipment monitoring a safety critical part of the control system (ie the driver) is totally normal and expected. That same piece of equipment surreptitiously phoning home to the manufacturer with the data is the part that isn't acceptable. I want my car to monitor both me and the surroundings. I also want to be able to do things like speak in natural language to my phone, use my phone camera to OCR and translate documents from a foreign language, and all sorts of other 90s sci-fi stuff. Unfortunately the future we were graced with is a dystopian reality where all of this is built on proprietary black boxes that spy on you 24/7. And somehow the government takes no issue with this state of affairs, instead constructing their own data feeds.

oneeyedpigeon 2y ago

How many is many? Are we talking 1% of all cars on the road? 0.1%?

dambi0 2y ago
Given this is about new technologies or more accurately the potential misuse of new technology, I think we can infer we are talking newer models of cars rather than cars already on the road.
hsuduebc2 2y ago
Even if it would be one percent, eg. every hundreth car that can store IDs and car color of cars passing by then you'r movement could be tracked easily just by being spotted by teslas. Musk has shown he's not a man to be trusted.
- b112 2y ago
  Musk has shown he's not a man to be trusted. This cracks me up. You're only saying that because he's vocal, and you're aware of him daily. After all, I don't see people commenting on the other 1M CEO, nor aware of what they're doing right now, which do not post on X.
  - dudefeliciano 2y ago
    That is quite the assumption to make, how do you know why they think Musk is not to be trusted? There are many of us who have been saying this for years. And you have to admit, even for him his actions in the last year have been egregious. Also, just because you do not see people complaining about the other 1M CEOs doesn't mean they don't exist.
  - hsuduebc2 2y ago
    Musk isn't untrustworthy just for being vocal. He has too much power and has shown he'll break rules or even the law when it suits him. Someone who is inherently political and wields this much influence without accountability should never be trusted. Being vocal is one thing but constantly attacking someone on x while spreading misinformation or straight up lies doesn't add to ones credibility either.

_kb 2y ago

Ford already has a patent for that [1] and Jeep has already started doing it [2] “by accident”. [1]: https://au.pcmag.com/cars-auto/107185/ford-patents-in-car-advertising-system-that-listens-to-passenger-conversations https://au.pcmag.com/cars-auto/107185/ford-patents-in-car-ad... [2]: https://fortune.com/2025/02/13/jeep-in-car-ads-popup-stellantis-software-revenue/ https://fortune.com/2025/02/13/jeep-in-car-ads-popup-stellan...