5 ms·

Incredible work, Brian! I'm in awe of what you've done in such a short amount of time. I started an indie game company (still working on our first title) and ha

Incredible work, Brian! I'm in awe of what you've done in such a short amount of time. I started an indie game company (still working on our first title) and had a few related questions if that's OK? 1) If you didn't need a salary or marketing help, would you still have signed a publishing deal? My sense is most of the publisher value lies in getting paid before the game launches, and with marketing around launch, but curious if those are wrong assumptions? 2) Early Access vs. Straight Launch - any insights about why you chose to do a full launch vs. an early access beforehand? Was it something you and the publisher discussed in detail? 3) Outside of Steam's ecosystem, how much marketing, promotion, social media, YouTube, Discord, etc. stuff did you (or the publisher) do? Do you think that pre-launch work had a sizable impact on the launch and post-launch success? Or would you say it's mostly the Steam algo making the game more visible to the right buyers as the positive reviews rolled in? Truly kind of you to share so openly here. Already sent some of your other replies to our game team

XCSme 2y ago
> My sense is most of the publisher value lies in getting paid before the game launches, and with marketing around launch, but curious if those are wrong assumptions? Don't publishers pay you a cut AFTER sales start coming in?
- jotson 2y ago
  Yes and some provide funding during development which they recoup later. Every deal is different. Raw Fury provides funding in advance for some.
newobj 2y ago
Thanks Rand! 1) It obviously varies w/ each dev's situation, but I think your sense of the value prop is a fair default one w/o context. In my case, there were four reasons: 1) having a partner to help with (to me) "the unknown unknowns" (i'm only a dev and a novice designer, literally anything else would be my first time doing it, so i figured having an experienced partner there would be wise) 2) the advance was nice just from a "bird in the hand" mindset 3) they helped me connect with a really good artist (critical to the project's success imho) 4) having a big name behind you can't hurt, and bigger publishers do have more relationships with the ecosystem (streamers, platforms, etc) to help your game succeed. 2) EA is appropriate for certain kinds of games. But I knew exactly what Ballionaire was going to be, and felt it could be achieved in a year. I knew that this mechanical space was going to be rapidly saturated, once all the games inspired by LBAL (including Balatro!) started appearing. So I was determined to get the game out before that happened, which set a certain scope and pace, obviating EA. 3) The trailers were a really good promotional tool, very effective. But most of the paid promotion was sponsored streams, not traditional "marketing" (ads). I think the game has a natural tendency for organic spread, due to its fun/simple premise, watchability/streamability, low price point, and so on. It's just an easy game to see, and say "ooh, I wanna try!" because it's instantly understood how to play, and IMHO is very inviting aesthetically. My takeaway: Make sure your hook is glowingly radioactively good. Don't overbalance. Leave in some jank. Scope down and finish quickly. And avoid tropes. Stand out. (Of course this only works for a certain kind of game!)
- Apofis 2y ago
  How far were you into building the game before you began to approach publishers? YC speaks frequently about investing in the founders, and not the idea---but then dives right into well you need to have revenue and/or users and it's a bit of a double-standard---so I'm curious what stage you were at when you started talking to publishers and what state your product was in when you finally signed a deal.
  - gcheong 2y ago
    I'm curious about this as well so I took a look at the publisher's site and found some info: https://rawfury.com/talk/ https://rawfury.com/talk/ under "Game Pitches". Would still like to hear from OP on any specifics though.
- randfish 2y ago
  "Make sure your hook is glowingly radioactively good. Don't overbalance. Leave in some jank. Scope down and finish quickly. And avoid tropes. Stand out." Sounds like outstanding advice. I hope we can follow in your footsteps! (and thanks for the kind and comprehensive answer)
  - mikeshi42 2y ago
    Honestly sounds like good advice for almost anything new/creative :)
- JansjoFromIkea 2y ago
  RE: "Make sure your hook is glowingly radioactively good. Don't overbalance. Leave in some jank. Scope down and finish quickly. And avoid tropes. Stand out." For games with a limited run time is it possible to balance this against Steam's 2 hour return policy? Feel like we're now trapped in a position where you can make short little proof of concepts on itch but when it comes to trying to make something professional you have to bloat it in a way to minimise people abusing that.
  - 2y ago
theanonymousone 2y ago
> most of the publisher value lies in getting paid before the game launches, and with marketing around launch Reading this, I'm wondering if there is something like a publisher for other types of Software than games? Looks a decent deal. No?
- thatguy0900 2y ago
  Isn't that exactly what vcs do?
butler14 2y ago
Funny that, of all the questions to ask, you of all people ask marketing questions, Rand :)

XCSme 2y ago

> My sense is most of the publisher value lies in getting paid before the game launches, and with marketing around launch, but curious if those are wrong assumptions? Don't publishers pay you a cut AFTER sales start coming in?

jotson 2y ago
Yes and some provide funding during development which they recoup later. Every deal is different. Raw Fury provides funding in advance for some.

newobj 2y ago

Thanks Rand! 1) It obviously varies w/ each dev's situation, but I think your sense of the value prop is a fair default one w/o context. In my case, there were four reasons: 1) having a partner to help with (to me) "the unknown unknowns" (i'm only a dev and a novice designer, literally anything else would be my first time doing it, so i figured having an experienced partner there would be wise) 2) the advance was nice just from a "bird in the hand" mindset 3) they helped me connect with a really good artist (critical to the project's success imho) 4) having a big name behind you can't hurt, and bigger publishers do have more relationships with the ecosystem (streamers, platforms, etc) to help your game succeed. 2) EA is appropriate for certain kinds of games. But I knew exactly what Ballionaire was going to be, and felt it could be achieved in a year. I knew that this mechanical space was going to be rapidly saturated, once all the games inspired by LBAL (including Balatro!) started appearing. So I was determined to get the game out before that happened, which set a certain scope and pace, obviating EA. 3) The trailers were a really good promotional tool, very effective. But most of the paid promotion was sponsored streams, not traditional "marketing" (ads). I think the game has a natural tendency for organic spread, due to its fun/simple premise, watchability/streamability, low price point, and so on. It's just an easy game to see, and say "ooh, I wanna try!" because it's instantly understood how to play, and IMHO is very inviting aesthetically. My takeaway: Make sure your hook is glowingly radioactively good. Don't overbalance. Leave in some jank. Scope down and finish quickly. And avoid tropes. Stand out. (Of course this only works for a certain kind of game!)

Apofis 2y ago
How far were you into building the game before you began to approach publishers? YC speaks frequently about investing in the founders, and not the idea---but then dives right into well you need to have revenue and/or users and it's a bit of a double-standard---so I'm curious what stage you were at when you started talking to publishers and what state your product was in when you finally signed a deal.
- gcheong 2y ago
  I'm curious about this as well so I took a look at the publisher's site and found some info: https://rawfury.com/talk/ https://rawfury.com/talk/ under "Game Pitches". Would still like to hear from OP on any specifics though.
randfish 2y ago
"Make sure your hook is glowingly radioactively good. Don't overbalance. Leave in some jank. Scope down and finish quickly. And avoid tropes. Stand out." Sounds like outstanding advice. I hope we can follow in your footsteps! (and thanks for the kind and comprehensive answer)
- mikeshi42 2y ago
  Honestly sounds like good advice for almost anything new/creative :)
JansjoFromIkea 2y ago
RE: "Make sure your hook is glowingly radioactively good. Don't overbalance. Leave in some jank. Scope down and finish quickly. And avoid tropes. Stand out." For games with a limited run time is it possible to balance this against Steam's 2 hour return policy? Feel like we're now trapped in a position where you can make short little proof of concepts on itch but when it comes to trying to make something professional you have to bloat it in a way to minimise people abusing that.
- 2y ago

theanonymousone 2y ago

> most of the publisher value lies in getting paid before the game launches, and with marketing around launch Reading this, I'm wondering if there is something like a publisher for other types of Software than games? Looks a decent deal. No?

thatguy0900 2y ago
Isn't that exactly what vcs do?

butler14 2y ago

Funny that, of all the questions to ask, you of all people ask marketing questions, Rand :)