14 ms·

> Then Irving would either walk back home to his wife and two children What the... he'd leave his wife at home with the kids while he hung out all day at the p

> Then Irving would either walk back home to his wife and two children What the... he'd leave his wife at home with the kids while he hung out all day at the pool with "magnificent-looking young women, full of theatrical drive" and eat all his meals at the hotel?

compiler-guy 2y ago
In those days you didn’t get divorced, you “stayed together” for the children. So they were effectively separated most of those years. Just informally so.
- colordrops 2y ago
  Many people still "stay together" for the children.
  - ForTheKidz 2y ago
    I have no doubt this is a widespread behavior, but I do have doubts as to whether or not this benefits children. Children seem to benefit primarily from watching relationships that genuinely make both parents happy. There's very little evidence to support that faking it yields results of children reacting as if you weren't faking it. You might as well divorce.
    - zdragnar 2y ago
      My friend in high school suffered from depression in part because he was well aware of that fact that his parents were only staying together until he graduated. Despite any attempt to put a rational face on it, he believed his existence was the source of his parents' unhappiness. Another friend of mine is doing this with his wife right now. He's utterly miserable, but the racial stereotype of the missing black father weighs so heavily in his mind that he's resigned to just counting down the years (despite my own attempt to convey the above story).
      - bowsamic 2y ago
        I think that staying together for the kids is essential for the very early age, but if someone goes it must be the dad. My mum left when I was 1 and a half and that is obviously horrifically painful At a certain age though the parents should split if it isn't working. It's definitely far easier to deal with your dad or mum leaving if you're 10 years old than if you're 1 year old
    - thewanderer1983 2y ago
      > Children seem to benefit primarily from watching relationships that genuinely make both parents happy. I think you'll find the data supports chidren benefiting from a happy loving home. Not from the concern of the parents relationships with others. My childhood friends were mostly from divorced parents and it very much impacted them all in negative ways. Parents are security blankets for children. It's who they run to when scared and need love. They are dependent on them survival. Ripping that apart causes harm.
      - smogcutter 2y ago
        Most people with happy loving homes don’t get divorced.
        rightbyte 2y ago
        I know people with kids that have divorced for the most stupid reasons. In many cases I feel the problem could have fundamentally been solved by being better at dividing household work such that someone can rest one or two days and then switch. For many divorce seems to be a way to divide labour, which they could have done without one.
        bowsamic 2y ago
        It is undeniable that it seems that way for us as outside observers at least. It seems more like both are stubborn and would rather burn everything than take responsibility. It would have to be pretty bad on the inside for that external appearance of the divorce to be justified at all
        rightbyte 2y ago
        That is true. I might be reading too much of my own pain point into their situations.
      - Sohcahtoa82 2y ago
        I don't think anybody will disagree that watching parents divorce is harmful to children. But I think parents sticking together for the kids is worse. Kids can see the contempt between their parents and might get the wrong impression that that's what a normal relationship looks like.
    - somenameforme 2y ago
      It's not all just about the relationship, but about the father and mother. Both offer very different aspects of life that help children develop in a way they'd never get from something like a 'visiting' parent, let alone the Big Brothers/Sisters program. Those latter things are of course much better than nothing, but the ideal is an ever present father and mother. For but one example, the most obvious is that a father understands what a 13 year old boy is going through in a way a mother never could, yet that mother will do a far better job with that same boy in his early years than the father ever could. Statistically children from two parent households just do dramatically better by just about every single measurable metric, with 0 control for the quality of that household/relationship.
  - stronglikedan 2y ago
    But the point is that many, many more don't.
  - kelnos 2y ago
    Many do today, but in those days nearly everyone did. These days we realize that two unhappily-married parents can often be worse for the children than if they get divorced and continue to be active parents.
    - Sohcahtoa82 2y ago
      A woman I dated about 15 years ago came from a household where her parents clearly did not like each other. She treated our relationship as being adversarial. She felt like she had to "win" every conversation, and one time even admitted to choosing to take a side that she knew was factually wrong just to stir things up. I think she truly believed that love was constant bickering. Within a year of her and her sister's moving out, her parents divorced. They stuck together "for the kids", and as a result, the kids got a terrible impression of what a loving relationship is supposed to look like.
magneticnorth 2y ago
The article mentions that he'd go home for dinner, up until his wife died. The hotel pool was apparently also where he did his "job": being a deal-making middleman for a 2% cut, per a later description in the article. His job, or at least his former jobs, paid well enough to have a home in Beverly Hills, drive a gold lexus, and wear beautiful suits every day. So they weren't necessarily estranged - he just worked long days every day that afforded a very nice lifestyle.
- kristianp 2y ago
  Of course when they bought their house it would have cost mere 10s of thousands. You can see why there's an attraction to owning your own house.
  - dexterdog 2y ago
    If you live in a place that doesn't have oppresive taxes and the real estate market maintains an unrealistic growth rate.
    - walthamstow 2y ago
      You have described London. There are no taxes on owning a property at all, the growth rate has slowed somewhat since the 00s heyday but it's still going up.
      - walthamstow 2y ago
        Prices are going up, that is, not the rate. A classic economics faux pas!
  - kamaal 2y ago
    Owning a home is always good no matter what the finance influencers tell you. In fact, earlier the better. Its not even the buying vs renting thing, renting is bad, you don't get to own anything at the end of the journey, and often the kind of things you have to put up with to save rent, or avoid getting homeless in case of of a job loss or other life crisis is just worth your mental health. Most of your life is spent paying up for the landlords ownership. People often arrive at the scene when most of the options are gone years back, and they wish they bought at the price that existed back then. Get disappointed and lawyer through the arguments to justify renting a home.
bryanlarsen 2y ago
"As Link tells it, Nan’s attention from their births went to son Rand and daughter Gale. There was no time for his work, his life and love. Despite separating ways, Link says, they stayed married for the sake of the children. Because that’s what parents used to do." https://www.latimes.com/archives/la-xpm-1996-05-19-ls-5806-story.html https://www.latimes.com/archives/la-xpm-1996-05-19-ls-5806-s...
elif 2y ago
This was incredibly the norm in the 90's. A 'good dad' back then spent an hour a day with his kid after work.
magicalhippo 2y ago
Was looking to buy an apartment which had had a single owner for decades, likely since it was built in the 70s. At the viewing I noticed how it looked quite distinctly worn. Like, the ceiling above the stove was full of grease from frying and the interior of the oven had clear signs of only being used for frozen pizzas. Looked like he'd only ever made like pork chops or frozen pizzas. The floor in the main bedroom was very well preserved, except for a noticeable worn path leading to the bed and a small oval next to the bed. Similar things in the living room. I mentioned this to the agent, which replied: *Oh yeah, the guy bought the place so he could stay here when he needed a break from his wife. Apparently he'd come here every few weeks or so and stay for a couple of days."

compiler-guy 2y ago

In those days you didn’t get divorced, you “stayed together” for the children. So they were effectively separated most of those years. Just informally so.

colordrops 2y ago
Many people still "stay together" for the children.
- ForTheKidz 2y ago
  I have no doubt this is a widespread behavior, but I do have doubts as to whether or not this benefits children. Children seem to benefit primarily from watching relationships that genuinely make both parents happy. There's very little evidence to support that faking it yields results of children reacting as if you weren't faking it. You might as well divorce.
  - zdragnar 2y ago
    My friend in high school suffered from depression in part because he was well aware of that fact that his parents were only staying together until he graduated. Despite any attempt to put a rational face on it, he believed his existence was the source of his parents' unhappiness. Another friend of mine is doing this with his wife right now. He's utterly miserable, but the racial stereotype of the missing black father weighs so heavily in his mind that he's resigned to just counting down the years (despite my own attempt to convey the above story).
    - bowsamic 2y ago
      I think that staying together for the kids is essential for the very early age, but if someone goes it must be the dad. My mum left when I was 1 and a half and that is obviously horrifically painful At a certain age though the parents should split if it isn't working. It's definitely far easier to deal with your dad or mum leaving if you're 10 years old than if you're 1 year old
  - thewanderer1983 2y ago
    > Children seem to benefit primarily from watching relationships that genuinely make both parents happy. I think you'll find the data supports chidren benefiting from a happy loving home. Not from the concern of the parents relationships with others. My childhood friends were mostly from divorced parents and it very much impacted them all in negative ways. Parents are security blankets for children. It's who they run to when scared and need love. They are dependent on them survival. Ripping that apart causes harm.
    - smogcutter 2y ago
      Most people with happy loving homes don’t get divorced.
      - rightbyte 2y ago
        I know people with kids that have divorced for the most stupid reasons. In many cases I feel the problem could have fundamentally been solved by being better at dividing household work such that someone can rest one or two days and then switch. For many divorce seems to be a way to divide labour, which they could have done without one.
        bowsamic 2y ago
        It is undeniable that it seems that way for us as outside observers at least. It seems more like both are stubborn and would rather burn everything than take responsibility. It would have to be pretty bad on the inside for that external appearance of the divorce to be justified at all
        rightbyte 2y ago
        That is true. I might be reading too much of my own pain point into their situations.
    - Sohcahtoa82 2y ago
      I don't think anybody will disagree that watching parents divorce is harmful to children. But I think parents sticking together for the kids is worse. Kids can see the contempt between their parents and might get the wrong impression that that's what a normal relationship looks like.
  - somenameforme 2y ago
    It's not all just about the relationship, but about the father and mother. Both offer very different aspects of life that help children develop in a way they'd never get from something like a 'visiting' parent, let alone the Big Brothers/Sisters program. Those latter things are of course much better than nothing, but the ideal is an ever present father and mother. For but one example, the most obvious is that a father understands what a 13 year old boy is going through in a way a mother never could, yet that mother will do a far better job with that same boy in his early years than the father ever could. Statistically children from two parent households just do dramatically better by just about every single measurable metric, with 0 control for the quality of that household/relationship.
- stronglikedan 2y ago
  But the point is that many, many more don't.
- kelnos 2y ago
  Many do today, but in those days nearly everyone did. These days we realize that two unhappily-married parents can often be worse for the children than if they get divorced and continue to be active parents.
  - Sohcahtoa82 2y ago
    A woman I dated about 15 years ago came from a household where her parents clearly did not like each other. She treated our relationship as being adversarial. She felt like she had to "win" every conversation, and one time even admitted to choosing to take a side that she knew was factually wrong just to stir things up. I think she truly believed that love was constant bickering. Within a year of her and her sister's moving out, her parents divorced. They stuck together "for the kids", and as a result, the kids got a terrible impression of what a loving relationship is supposed to look like.

magneticnorth 2y ago

The article mentions that he'd go home for dinner, up until his wife died. The hotel pool was apparently also where he did his "job": being a deal-making middleman for a 2% cut, per a later description in the article. His job, or at least his former jobs, paid well enough to have a home in Beverly Hills, drive a gold lexus, and wear beautiful suits every day. So they weren't necessarily estranged - he just worked long days every day that afforded a very nice lifestyle.

kristianp 2y ago
Of course when they bought their house it would have cost mere 10s of thousands. You can see why there's an attraction to owning your own house.
- dexterdog 2y ago
  If you live in a place that doesn't have oppresive taxes and the real estate market maintains an unrealistic growth rate.
  - walthamstow 2y ago
    You have described London. There are no taxes on owning a property at all, the growth rate has slowed somewhat since the 00s heyday but it's still going up.
    - walthamstow 2y ago
      Prices are going up, that is, not the rate. A classic economics faux pas!
- kamaal 2y ago
  Owning a home is always good no matter what the finance influencers tell you. In fact, earlier the better. Its not even the buying vs renting thing, renting is bad, you don't get to own anything at the end of the journey, and often the kind of things you have to put up with to save rent, or avoid getting homeless in case of of a job loss or other life crisis is just worth your mental health. Most of your life is spent paying up for the landlords ownership. People often arrive at the scene when most of the options are gone years back, and they wish they bought at the price that existed back then. Get disappointed and lawyer through the arguments to justify renting a home.

bryanlarsen 2y ago

"As Link tells it, Nan’s attention from their births went to son Rand and daughter Gale. There was no time for his work, his life and love. Despite separating ways, Link says, they stayed married for the sake of the children. Because that’s what parents used to do." https://www.latimes.com/archives/la-xpm-1996-05-19-ls-5806-story.html https://www.latimes.com/archives/la-xpm-1996-05-19-ls-5806-s...

elif 2y ago

This was incredibly the norm in the 90's. A 'good dad' back then spent an hour a day with his kid after work.

magicalhippo 2y ago

Was looking to buy an apartment which had had a single owner for decades, likely since it was built in the 70s. At the viewing I noticed how it looked quite distinctly worn. Like, the ceiling above the stove was full of grease from frying and the interior of the oven had clear signs of only being used for frozen pizzas. Looked like he'd only ever made like pork chops or frozen pizzas. The floor in the main bedroom was very well preserved, except for a noticeable worn path leading to the bed and a small oval next to the bed. Similar things in the living room. I mentioned this to the agent, which replied: *Oh yeah, the guy bought the place so he could stay here when he needed a break from his wife. Apparently he'd come here every few weeks or so and stay for a couple of days."