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well, all these tariffs are a major regression away from free markets. Although somehow I doubt this is what Bezos has in mind.

by sixo 2y ago

rainsford 2y ago
Yeah there is an obvious immediate test here for whether Bezos is sincere about this new direction. An opinion section aggressively advocating for free trade should be able to find plenty of reasons to criticize the new administration. I'm pretty skeptical that's what will happen though.
deleted 2y ago
[deleted]
droopyEyelids 2y ago
The actual original meaning (and the one that still makes sense) of free markets was “free from economic rent” as sections of the economy were monopolies granted by the king. Those free markets really did benefit the people and the country. And they were compatible with taxes and tariffs. Bezos is using the corrupted modern meaning, “free to charge economic rent” because he wants amazon to capture a greater share of global economic activity
- jaredklewis 2y ago
  I agree with you about the term's original usage, but I don't think that is the modern meaning. Usage varies, but most commonly "free market" refers to an economy that is not centrally planned. All economies have at least some level of central planning, as well as at least some degree of economic freedom for participants, so the term is somewhat like the usage of "right" and "left" in politics, where it just indicates which side of a center line someone or something falls. Any market on the free-er side of the "center" can be described as a "free market." So it has basically just become an antonym of socialism. I don't think it necessarily implies anything about a tacit approval of rent seeking in the economy.
  - droopyEyelids 2y ago
    I take your point, and that (i think you would agree) loose anti-socialism definition you explained is a big part of it. But i think the subtext in modern usage is also “the right to operate a private toll on the economy” especially when its Bezos advocating it.
frugalmail 2y ago
You think the current editor resigned because Bezos was asking them to criticize tariffs? Like every other major publication, and WPo has done before? He's trying to get them to stop promoting socialism/statism.
fsckboy 2y ago
according to what Trump says (i have not researched it myself) the US in the recent past has paid tariffs many times over what it has charged in tariffs, and he wants to equalize the playing field. So yes, imposing tariffs is a regression away from free markets, but if what he says about foreign tariffs is true, it already wasn't a free market for trade.
- drdeca 2y ago
  Tariffs are paid by the people buying and selling, to the state imposing the tariff.
  - fsckboy 2y ago
    a falling tide lowers all boats
- throw0101c 2y ago
  > So yes, imposing tariffs is a regression away from free markets, but if what he says about foreign tariffs is true, it already wasn't a free market for trade. Except that in Trump 1.0, he signed a free trade deal with MX and CA and said: > The USMCA is the largest, most significant, modern, and balanced trade agreement in history. * https://trumpwhitehouse.archives.gov/briefings-statements/president-donald-j-trumps-united-states-mexico-canada-agreement-delivers-historic-win-american-workers/ https://trumpwhitehouse.archives.gov/briefings-statements/pr... But now it's a bad deal: * https://www.huffpost.com/entry/trump-usmca-nafta-tariffs-canada-mexico_n_67bda523e4b0f4e8df29f534 https://www.huffpost.com/entry/trump-usmca-nafta-tariffs-can... and wants to impose 25% tariffs on MX and CA—in violation of the free trade deal that he signed.

well, all these tariffs are a major regression away from free markets. Although somehow I doubt this is what Bezos has in mind.

by sixo 2y ago

well, all these tariffs are a major regression away from free markets. Although somehow I doubt this is what Bezos has in mind.

rainsford 2y ago

Yeah there is an obvious immediate test here for whether Bezos is sincere about this new direction. An opinion section aggressively advocating for free trade should be able to find plenty of reasons to criticize the new administration. I'm pretty skeptical that's what will happen though.

deleted 2y ago

[deleted]

droopyEyelids 2y ago

The actual original meaning (and the one that still makes sense) of free markets was “free from economic rent” as sections of the economy were monopolies granted by the king. Those free markets really did benefit the people and the country. And they were compatible with taxes and tariffs. Bezos is using the corrupted modern meaning, “free to charge economic rent” because he wants amazon to capture a greater share of global economic activity

jaredklewis 2y ago
I agree with you about the term's original usage, but I don't think that is the modern meaning. Usage varies, but most commonly "free market" refers to an economy that is not centrally planned. All economies have at least some level of central planning, as well as at least some degree of economic freedom for participants, so the term is somewhat like the usage of "right" and "left" in politics, where it just indicates which side of a center line someone or something falls. Any market on the free-er side of the "center" can be described as a "free market." So it has basically just become an antonym of socialism. I don't think it necessarily implies anything about a tacit approval of rent seeking in the economy.
- droopyEyelids 2y ago
  I take your point, and that (i think you would agree) loose anti-socialism definition you explained is a big part of it. But i think the subtext in modern usage is also “the right to operate a private toll on the economy” especially when its Bezos advocating it.

frugalmail 2y ago

You think the current editor resigned because Bezos was asking them to criticize tariffs? Like every other major publication, and WPo has done before? He's trying to get them to stop promoting socialism/statism.

fsckboy 2y ago

according to what Trump says (i have not researched it myself) the US in the recent past has paid tariffs many times over what it has charged in tariffs, and he wants to equalize the playing field. So yes, imposing tariffs is a regression away from free markets, but if what he says about foreign tariffs is true, it already wasn't a free market for trade.

drdeca 2y ago
Tariffs are paid by the people buying and selling, to the state imposing the tariff.
- fsckboy 2y ago
  a falling tide lowers all boats
throw0101c 2y ago
> So yes, imposing tariffs is a regression away from free markets, but if what he says about foreign tariffs is true, it already wasn't a free market for trade. Except that in Trump 1.0, he signed a free trade deal with MX and CA and said: > The USMCA is the largest, most significant, modern, and balanced trade agreement in history. * https://trumpwhitehouse.archives.gov/briefings-statements/president-donald-j-trumps-united-states-mexico-canada-agreement-delivers-historic-win-american-workers/ https://trumpwhitehouse.archives.gov/briefings-statements/pr... But now it's a bad deal: * https://www.huffpost.com/entry/trump-usmca-nafta-tariffs-canada-mexico_n_67bda523e4b0f4e8df29f534 https://www.huffpost.com/entry/trump-usmca-nafta-tariffs-can... and wants to impose 25% tariffs on MX and CA—in violation of the free trade deal that he signed.