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Things are moving fast and breaking. Maybe woke went too far and that’s the old white man’s revenge? We are probably fine on a 100 year horizon. But the next

by baxtr 2y ago

Things are moving fast and breaking. Maybe woke went too far and that’s the old white man’s revenge? We are probably fine on a 100 year horizon. But the next 10 years. Oh boy.

femiagbabiaka 2y ago
"Woke" is a meme, not a political orientation or a coherent bloc that can take concerted actions. And for what it's worth, plenty of old white men venture capitalists made tons of money selling DEI to the Fortune 500.
- cocacola1 2y ago
  Moreover, from my POV, “woke” is often pronounced with a hard R.
tasty_freeze 2y ago
"Maybe woke went too far ..." From where I sit on the left, the right wing is extremely effective in making people believe the left is a parody of itself. For instance, the left does have stronger support for LGBTQ issues than the right, but it isn't the primary issue. I'm sure "Build Back Better" investments in infrastructure involved 100x the attention and resources that LGBTQ issues did. But right media pushes stories multiple times a day about how the left is trying to turn your little Johnny into Janie. There are fewer than ten M->F trans athletes in college sports [1], but it is nearly a daily news item. The the casual news viewer (most everybody) their impression watching their news is that the only concern of Democrats is to advance a LGBTQ takeover. Same thing with CRT. Same thing with Benghazi. Same thing with Hillary's emails. They pick an issue and hammer it, hammer it, hammer it. And it doesn't stay stuck in the right wing mediasphere. It becomes part of the "national conversation" and so mainstream media has to report on it too. [1] https://thehill.com/homenews/lgbtq/5046662-ncaa-president-transgender-athletes-college-sports/ https://thehill.com/homenews/lgbtq/5046662-ncaa-president-tr...
- lolinder 2y ago
  Part of the problem is that "the left" is not a monolith. I regularly interact with a part of the left who sincerely believe both that "trans rights are human rights" is the key, defining issue of the decade and that critical race theory absolutely should be taught in schools. These people do in fact believe the things that the right says they do. And they were in fact working for many years prior to this past election to push their worldview into the wider cultural sphere. I'm not pulling this from the media, I've literally sat in rooms where people planned how to use school curricula to build acceptance for both these ideas. There are other parts of the left that aren't that way, and you're correct that the right benefited immensely from making the left seem like it was a monolith. But that part of the left that pushed these ideas so hard so fast actually does exist and actually did fuel the fire.
  - tasty_freeze 2y ago
    I have a hard time believing that 5% of people knew what CRT was before the right made it an issue and redefined it. CRT was a legal and social theory trying to explain why the civil rights laws passed in the 50s and 60s hasn't eliminated various forms of racial disparity. It wasn't something taught in grade schools and high schools. But CRT was redefined to encompass just about any bogeyman issue. Just to refresh my memory so I wasn't talking out of my butt, I went and skimmed the wikipedia article about the history and meaning of CRT. It is an academic theory, not something grade schoolers would ever encounter (unless you use the redefined meaning, such as having a book in the library where there is a mixed race couple in the story). The second part of my response is that you are conflating what the left leadership is saying/doing vs what some randos you know are saying/doing. In a similar way, it is like shooting fish in a barrel to interview people on the street about some topic, either left or right, and produce hours of content showing that people are idiots. Such videos are all over the internet and I avoid them. What is important is what the people with the levers of power are saying/doing.
  - Capricorn2481 2y ago
    The fact that you refer to CRT as a dirty word that shouldn't be taught in schools is puzzling to me. Covering how slavery has affected our country seems like a no brainer thing to include in a curriculum.
voidhorse 2y ago
> Maybe woke went too far You're falling for it. In America right now, there are basically three political alignments in terms of how they orient themselves around domestic political problems: - PseudoFascist Right (current people holding power): this is largely a collective of misinformed or uninformed people who are are feeling the severe effects of wealth inequality and have been duped into thinking the cause is their (equally destitute) neighbor rather than the talking suits who don't pay taxes. - Less Radical Right: these people call themselves "democrats" or "centrists". They are essentially only interested in maintaining existing political power and the prevailing order. They also don't want to do anything about wealth inequality, but rather than try and blame it on people of a particular race, gender, etc. they invert the message and point to other actual disparities and problems, sometimes they make concessions and solve some of these issues, but even this is rare. - The Remnants of the Left: These are the people who recognize wealth inequality as the underlying root of domestic problems. They actually want to address wealth inequality, but they have the least power, because America's political system has been co-opted by the wealthy through mechanisms like lobbying. The whole "did the left go too far with woke" is a strawman being adopted by the "Less Radical Right" after their recent election loss. They hope to use this as an excuse so that, when they are up for re-election, they can still avoid solving the actual problems or addressing the actual concerns (wealth inequality) of much of the left. The core of the problem is that representatives are directly incentivized against their constituents because they get their palms greased by those "American citizens" called corporations.
aaron695 2y ago
[dead]
timacles 2y ago
Woke didn’t do anything that’s just propaganda and what they want you to think. There’s just a ridiculous amount of bad actors out there and they’re all extremely motivated. There is opportunity there. This is the gold rush for them and it’s what they’re good at. Can you say the same for the good honorable people out there? There is a handful of them, but the extremely outnumbered and who out there is even motivated like the opposition? An 80 years Bernie sanders

by baxtr 2y ago

Things are moving fast and breaking. Maybe woke went too far and that’s the old white man’s revenge? We are probably fine on a 100 year horizon. But the next 10 years. Oh boy.

femiagbabiaka 2y ago

"Woke" is a meme, not a political orientation or a coherent bloc that can take concerted actions. And for what it's worth, plenty of old white men venture capitalists made tons of money selling DEI to the Fortune 500.

cocacola1 2y ago
Moreover, from my POV, “woke” is often pronounced with a hard R.

tasty_freeze 2y ago

"Maybe woke went too far ..." From where I sit on the left, the right wing is extremely effective in making people believe the left is a parody of itself. For instance, the left does have stronger support for LGBTQ issues than the right, but it isn't the primary issue. I'm sure "Build Back Better" investments in infrastructure involved 100x the attention and resources that LGBTQ issues did. But right media pushes stories multiple times a day about how the left is trying to turn your little Johnny into Janie. There are fewer than ten M->F trans athletes in college sports [1], but it is nearly a daily news item. The the casual news viewer (most everybody) their impression watching their news is that the only concern of Democrats is to advance a LGBTQ takeover. Same thing with CRT. Same thing with Benghazi. Same thing with Hillary's emails. They pick an issue and hammer it, hammer it, hammer it. And it doesn't stay stuck in the right wing mediasphere. It becomes part of the "national conversation" and so mainstream media has to report on it too. [1] https://thehill.com/homenews/lgbtq/5046662-ncaa-president-transgender-athletes-college-sports/ https://thehill.com/homenews/lgbtq/5046662-ncaa-president-tr...

lolinder 2y ago
Part of the problem is that "the left" is not a monolith. I regularly interact with a part of the left who sincerely believe both that "trans rights are human rights" is the key, defining issue of the decade and that critical race theory absolutely should be taught in schools. These people do in fact believe the things that the right says they do. And they were in fact working for many years prior to this past election to push their worldview into the wider cultural sphere. I'm not pulling this from the media, I've literally sat in rooms where people planned how to use school curricula to build acceptance for both these ideas. There are other parts of the left that aren't that way, and you're correct that the right benefited immensely from making the left seem like it was a monolith. But that part of the left that pushed these ideas so hard so fast actually does exist and actually did fuel the fire.
- tasty_freeze 2y ago
  I have a hard time believing that 5% of people knew what CRT was before the right made it an issue and redefined it. CRT was a legal and social theory trying to explain why the civil rights laws passed in the 50s and 60s hasn't eliminated various forms of racial disparity. It wasn't something taught in grade schools and high schools. But CRT was redefined to encompass just about any bogeyman issue. Just to refresh my memory so I wasn't talking out of my butt, I went and skimmed the wikipedia article about the history and meaning of CRT. It is an academic theory, not something grade schoolers would ever encounter (unless you use the redefined meaning, such as having a book in the library where there is a mixed race couple in the story). The second part of my response is that you are conflating what the left leadership is saying/doing vs what some randos you know are saying/doing. In a similar way, it is like shooting fish in a barrel to interview people on the street about some topic, either left or right, and produce hours of content showing that people are idiots. Such videos are all over the internet and I avoid them. What is important is what the people with the levers of power are saying/doing.
- Capricorn2481 2y ago
  The fact that you refer to CRT as a dirty word that shouldn't be taught in schools is puzzling to me. Covering how slavery has affected our country seems like a no brainer thing to include in a curriculum.

voidhorse 2y ago

> Maybe woke went too far You're falling for it. In America right now, there are basically three political alignments in terms of how they orient themselves around domestic political problems: - PseudoFascist Right (current people holding power): this is largely a collective of misinformed or uninformed people who are are feeling the severe effects of wealth inequality and have been duped into thinking the cause is their (equally destitute) neighbor rather than the talking suits who don't pay taxes. - Less Radical Right: these people call themselves "democrats" or "centrists". They are essentially only interested in maintaining existing political power and the prevailing order. They also don't want to do anything about wealth inequality, but rather than try and blame it on people of a particular race, gender, etc. they invert the message and point to other actual disparities and problems, sometimes they make concessions and solve some of these issues, but even this is rare. - The Remnants of the Left: These are the people who recognize wealth inequality as the underlying root of domestic problems. They actually want to address wealth inequality, but they have the least power, because America's political system has been co-opted by the wealthy through mechanisms like lobbying. The whole "did the left go too far with woke" is a strawman being adopted by the "Less Radical Right" after their recent election loss. They hope to use this as an excuse so that, when they are up for re-election, they can still avoid solving the actual problems or addressing the actual concerns (wealth inequality) of much of the left. The core of the problem is that representatives are directly incentivized against their constituents because they get their palms greased by those "American citizens" called corporations.

aaron695 2y ago

[dead]

timacles 2y ago

Woke didn’t do anything that’s just propaganda and what they want you to think. There’s just a ridiculous amount of bad actors out there and they’re all extremely motivated. There is opportunity there. This is the gold rush for them and it’s what they’re good at. Can you say the same for the good honorable people out there? There is a handful of them, but the extremely outnumbered and who out there is even motivated like the opposition? An 80 years Bernie sanders