4 ms·

But don't bother checking for the spring mechanism that retracts the measure tape in case it breaks or the power supply connection point on the saw if it stops

But don't bother checking for the spring mechanism that retracts the measure tape in case it breaks or the power supply connection point on the saw if it stops working. Those bits just magically work! :)

vesan 18y ago
There must be hole in the spring mechanism testing procedure
swombat 18y ago
They don't magically work. You'll understand the mechanism when you know a bit more about how to build a measure tape and a saw. Also, all the so-called magic is extensively and automatically tested, and so an order of magnitude more reliable than your own custom-rolled spring mechanisms.
- nailer 18y ago
  Exactly. This is why the article is such a bad analogy - frameworks makes things simpler by handling things you'd already do without them. If you're making a spice rack: Without framework: DIY shed filled with tools Framework: IKEA
  - swombat 18y ago
    Well, not quite... that's a bad analogy too, actually... Rails isn't IKEA - and most java frameworks are definitely not IKEA. Frameworks are tools, not end products.
    - parenthesis 18y ago
      Have you tried assembling an Ikea flat-pack?
      - swombat 18y ago
        Many times, and I can't for the life of me understand why anyone would struggle at it. IKEA provides flat-packed products. You never buy a wardrobe at IKEA and then turn it into a couch instead. It will always be a wardrobe, and nothing else. On the other hand, if you buy a set of tools and environment (aka framework) to build furniture, you can use it to build whatever furniture you want/can.
    - nailer 18y ago
      Things from IKEA are not end products. However all the cutting, planing, and much of the other work has already been done, in the same way that the method of talking to the database and the webserver have been done in the framework.
      - swombat 18y ago
        Things from IKEA are flat-packed end-products.
        nailer 18y ago
        End products are finished. If something requires assembly, it is not an end product.
        alex_c 18y ago
        LEGO is an end product.
        nailer 18y ago
        Yes, but that's because Lego is sold on the experience of building. IKEA products, like Frameworks, are sold on the purpose of having something finished and useful at once you've put in a little work.
  - axod 18y ago
    I think the issue is, a spice rack from IKEA may work, but it's not going to look great, or last long. Any flat pack spice rack, will be shoddy quality, and probably break. You don't get good furniture by mass producing it like that. Same with software. What if I want a custom spice rack, with some secret compartment, in solid oak.
    - swombat 18y ago
      The idea that using well tested, widely spread open source software is somehow less reliable than writing your own is the kind of baseless FUD I wouldn't expect from you, axod. Next, you'll be suggesting that people write their own web server instead of using Apache? Or perhaps they can trust other people's code so long as they pay for it, so you'll send them towards IIS? Come on, now.
      - axod 18y ago
        "Next, you'll be suggesting that people write their own web server instead of using Apache?" If the webserver is a key component in your success, then definitely. Write a webserver. It was for me, which is why I wrote my own (After I found others lacking). If it really matters, and the existing stuff isn't good enough for your use-case, write it yourself.
      - blasdel 18y ago
        That's a bad example to bring up, considering how Apache httpd is such a massive pile of shit.

vesan 18y ago

There must be hole in the spring mechanism testing procedure

swombat 18y ago

They don't magically work. You'll understand the mechanism when you know a bit more about how to build a measure tape and a saw. Also, all the so-called magic is extensively and automatically tested, and so an order of magnitude more reliable than your own custom-rolled spring mechanisms.

nailer 18y ago
Exactly. This is why the article is such a bad analogy - frameworks makes things simpler by handling things you'd already do without them. If you're making a spice rack: Without framework: DIY shed filled with tools Framework: IKEA
- swombat 18y ago
  Well, not quite... that's a bad analogy too, actually... Rails isn't IKEA - and most java frameworks are definitely not IKEA. Frameworks are tools, not end products.
  - parenthesis 18y ago
    Have you tried assembling an Ikea flat-pack?
    - swombat 18y ago
      Many times, and I can't for the life of me understand why anyone would struggle at it. IKEA provides flat-packed products. You never buy a wardrobe at IKEA and then turn it into a couch instead. It will always be a wardrobe, and nothing else. On the other hand, if you buy a set of tools and environment (aka framework) to build furniture, you can use it to build whatever furniture you want/can.
  - nailer 18y ago
    Things from IKEA are not end products. However all the cutting, planing, and much of the other work has already been done, in the same way that the method of talking to the database and the webserver have been done in the framework.
    - swombat 18y ago
      Things from IKEA are flat-packed end-products.
      - nailer 18y ago
        End products are finished. If something requires assembly, it is not an end product.
        alex_c 18y ago
        LEGO is an end product.
        nailer 18y ago
        Yes, but that's because Lego is sold on the experience of building. IKEA products, like Frameworks, are sold on the purpose of having something finished and useful at once you've put in a little work.
- axod 18y ago
  I think the issue is, a spice rack from IKEA may work, but it's not going to look great, or last long. Any flat pack spice rack, will be shoddy quality, and probably break. You don't get good furniture by mass producing it like that. Same with software. What if I want a custom spice rack, with some secret compartment, in solid oak.
  - swombat 18y ago
    The idea that using well tested, widely spread open source software is somehow less reliable than writing your own is the kind of baseless FUD I wouldn't expect from you, axod. Next, you'll be suggesting that people write their own web server instead of using Apache? Or perhaps they can trust other people's code so long as they pay for it, so you'll send them towards IIS? Come on, now.
    - axod 18y ago
      "Next, you'll be suggesting that people write their own web server instead of using Apache?" If the webserver is a key component in your success, then definitely. Write a webserver. It was for me, which is why I wrote my own (After I found others lacking). If it really matters, and the existing stuff isn't good enough for your use-case, write it yourself.
    - blasdel 18y ago
      That's a bad example to bring up, considering how Apache httpd is such a massive pile of shit.