5 ms·

Conduction through the ground? Or run coolant through buried pipes. Just a pump; no significant energy to cool, just move the coolant.

ok_dad 2y ago
Just ship all that heavy coolant up there first
- ceejayoz 2y ago
  You'd probably use lunar water from the ice that's believed to be in shadowed craters at the poles.
  - ok_dad 2y ago
    Just heat up all that super cooled ice first
    - ceejayoz 2y ago
      I like how you’ve done a complete 180 on the problem here.
      - ok_dad 2y ago
        No, I’m saying it’s stupid to put this on the moon. Every time someone says, “just do this” there are complexities and costs that they don’t account for. Where will you get the immense energy needed to melt supercooled ice?! It’s ridiculous that I’m even arguing, it’s such a stupid idea.
        ceejayoz 2y ago
        > No, I’m saying it’s stupid to put this on the moon. I agree with that. Just not for the heating/cooling reasons. > Where will you get the immense energy needed to melt supercooled ice?! The problem was too much heat. Now it's too little heat. You can't have both. The energy comes from the server farm. The coolant comes from the ice. You melt your first ice with the heat from the server farm (or an initial solar field).
        ok_dad 2y ago
        The ice isn’t in one place, it’s spread around in the regolith at varying densities. How do you collect and melt it? Sure you have heat and nothing to do with it but your ice isn’t all in a neat pile. My point is that you can go on and on like this and come up with a thousand ways the project will fail before it’s even started. Anyways, I’m done arguing, we both agree it’s stupid but just for different reasons.
- M95D 2y ago
  ... and digging/drilling equipment.
  - JoeAltmaier 2y ago
    Or just burying equipment. Everythng is very cold. No need to get deep. Cover them in regolith, freely available.
    - ok_dad 2y ago
      Rock is so well known as a thermal insulator that we build buildings from it (brick, concrete, stone blocks). I don't think it's going to help much with your heat transfer problem.
      - JoeAltmaier 2y ago
        Rats. I can't seem to find the thermal properties of regolith. Mostly rock, some heavy metals.
        ok_dad 2y ago
        I read somewhere else that regolith is spiny and porous, and with the leading theory of the moon being that it was the result of some massive object hitting Earth a long time ago, and then the ejected material coalescing in orbit and cooling, it makes sense to me that it would be more of an insulator than a conductor. I only know a bit of materials science from what I learned in nuclear power school back in the day, but for a conductor you want to have, generally, no air voids. I recall learning how bubbles in the steel for the plant could not only lead to failures, but also lead to thermal stress points because heat would build up on the "thinner" cross section of metal when there were pores all over (heat transfer being dependent a lot on the cross sectional width, IIRC). Anyways, it's unlikely they'll actually build anything on the moon anytime soon, especially a "data center".
- Frenchgeek 2y ago
  What's the expected lifetime of the average hard-drive in a datacenter? And does Amazon allow next day delivery to the Moon?
- Valgrim 2y ago
  You could probably use significantly less coolant if you're using heat pipes. The coolant is mainly gaseous and only a small mass remains liquid during the cycle
  - ok_dad 2y ago
    There is a certain amount of energy you need to move from the chips to the atmosphere or to the geology, and a liquid coolant vs a gaseous coolant will make a BIG difference in how much of that heat you can move. I don't know why I am arguing, putting a data center on the moon is dumb as hell.
    - deleted 2y ago
      [deleted]
xattt 2y ago
Why not do the same on Earth? For all the heroics needed to establish this ok the moon, the efforts and costs are much less back home.
- JoeAltmaier 2y ago
  Right; its a one-and-quarter-second to the moon. High data center latency.
  - xattt 2y ago
    Priorities!
- 01HNNWZ0MV43FF 2y ago
  There's a serious lack of terraforming here on Earth. Oh, we're overpopulated? Buy some single-family homes, buy out the government, and upzone it into apartments. You're still cheaper than space flight and with a shorter commute to work than Rapture

ok_dad 2y ago

Just ship all that heavy coolant up there first

ceejayoz 2y ago
You'd probably use lunar water from the ice that's believed to be in shadowed craters at the poles.
- ok_dad 2y ago
  Just heat up all that super cooled ice first
  - ceejayoz 2y ago
    I like how you’ve done a complete 180 on the problem here.
    - ok_dad 2y ago
      No, I’m saying it’s stupid to put this on the moon. Every time someone says, “just do this” there are complexities and costs that they don’t account for. Where will you get the immense energy needed to melt supercooled ice?! It’s ridiculous that I’m even arguing, it’s such a stupid idea.
      - ceejayoz 2y ago
        > No, I’m saying it’s stupid to put this on the moon. I agree with that. Just not for the heating/cooling reasons. > Where will you get the immense energy needed to melt supercooled ice?! The problem was too much heat. Now it's too little heat. You can't have both. The energy comes from the server farm. The coolant comes from the ice. You melt your first ice with the heat from the server farm (or an initial solar field).
        ok_dad 2y ago
        The ice isn’t in one place, it’s spread around in the regolith at varying densities. How do you collect and melt it? Sure you have heat and nothing to do with it but your ice isn’t all in a neat pile. My point is that you can go on and on like this and come up with a thousand ways the project will fail before it’s even started. Anyways, I’m done arguing, we both agree it’s stupid but just for different reasons.
M95D 2y ago
... and digging/drilling equipment.
- JoeAltmaier 2y ago
  Or just burying equipment. Everythng is very cold. No need to get deep. Cover them in regolith, freely available.
  - ok_dad 2y ago
    Rock is so well known as a thermal insulator that we build buildings from it (brick, concrete, stone blocks). I don't think it's going to help much with your heat transfer problem.
    - JoeAltmaier 2y ago
      Rats. I can't seem to find the thermal properties of regolith. Mostly rock, some heavy metals.
      - ok_dad 2y ago
        I read somewhere else that regolith is spiny and porous, and with the leading theory of the moon being that it was the result of some massive object hitting Earth a long time ago, and then the ejected material coalescing in orbit and cooling, it makes sense to me that it would be more of an insulator than a conductor. I only know a bit of materials science from what I learned in nuclear power school back in the day, but for a conductor you want to have, generally, no air voids. I recall learning how bubbles in the steel for the plant could not only lead to failures, but also lead to thermal stress points because heat would build up on the "thinner" cross section of metal when there were pores all over (heat transfer being dependent a lot on the cross sectional width, IIRC). Anyways, it's unlikely they'll actually build anything on the moon anytime soon, especially a "data center".
Frenchgeek 2y ago
What's the expected lifetime of the average hard-drive in a datacenter? And does Amazon allow next day delivery to the Moon?
Valgrim 2y ago
You could probably use significantly less coolant if you're using heat pipes. The coolant is mainly gaseous and only a small mass remains liquid during the cycle
- ok_dad 2y ago
  There is a certain amount of energy you need to move from the chips to the atmosphere or to the geology, and a liquid coolant vs a gaseous coolant will make a BIG difference in how much of that heat you can move. I don't know why I am arguing, putting a data center on the moon is dumb as hell.
  - deleted 2y ago
    [deleted]

xattt 2y ago

Why not do the same on Earth? For all the heroics needed to establish this ok the moon, the efforts and costs are much less back home.

JoeAltmaier 2y ago
Right; its a one-and-quarter-second to the moon. High data center latency.
- xattt 2y ago
  Priorities!
01HNNWZ0MV43FF 2y ago
There's a serious lack of terraforming here on Earth. Oh, we're overpopulated? Buy some single-family homes, buy out the government, and upzone it into apartments. You're still cheaper than space flight and with a shorter commute to work than Rapture