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> I'm curious what other kinds of work other former developers got into and if they like it. Speaking in general terms, age discrimination in tech (not just so

> I'm curious what other kinds of work other former developers got into and if they like it. Speaking in general terms, age discrimination in tech (not just software development) is, in my opinion, a really serious problem. It's like society discards you after a certain point in time, even though you are likely more capable than most younger candidates. I am going to point the finger squarely at YC on some of this, simply because they could be an important part of the change this attitude would require. If I were to characterize the high-altitude view of YC funded startups, I'd say it's a college campus. Sure, of course, there might be a few corner cases here and there. PG even has an essay where he says the ideal age is between 22 and 38. I think I read that only about 2% of funded founders are above 38. Well, that's bullshit. Again, society discards you because of a biological clock having nothing whatsoever to do with your capabilities. Let's put it this way: I can't think of a single "older" founder that would have even thought about the down-right disgusting idea of a startup that treats factory workers like cattle and --even better-- nobody in that age group would think it sensible to actually promote this in social media. Anyhow, getting back to your question. I have friends who have tried it all. Lie on their resume. Die their hair. Serious dieting and exercise. Take lower pay. Etc. The vast majority do not make it past the Zoom interview. That is, if they ever get one. These days researching people is very easy. Which also means you get to see how old they are. If that isn't used to disqualify, the zoom call certainly does it. Of these friends, most chose to pursue personal interests or simply retire. On of them had been investing in real estate most of his life. He decided to manage his properties. Another friend, who ended-up with no retirement or savings to speak of due to a nasty divorce, ended-up finding a job in the oil fields in New Mexico. He sits in a trailer in the middle of nowhere, by himself, 24/7. Every couple of hours he gets in his truck and does the rounds --checking measurements, turning valves, filling out forms. He is making $250K a year for that. Here's a guy who is an extremely capable technologist who was discarded by society (well, at least the tech side of society) and is now in the desert living in a trailer. This is horrible. Yeah, sure, he is making a lot of money. He is also as miserable as can be. If he was mentally weak I'd be worried about all sorts of things, from becoming an alcoholic to suicide. Thankfully that isn't his case. You can make a lot of money and still be miserable. It's interesting how society has been up in arms over the years about providing opportunity for different groups (choose a classification) and yet, age discrimination in tech largely remains untreated...a perfect crime, if you will. I don't know what to tell you. Widen your search space to uncover opportunities that might have nothing to do with tech. Better yet, perhaps look for something where the entry point isn't necessarily tech based but your tech capabilities will give you the ability to become invaluable. It's like being the person at the office who knows how to write Excel formulas and VBA code. At some point everyone needs you around.

addicted 2y ago
While I agree age discrimination in tech is a huge problem, it’s hardly true that it hasn’t received attention. Age discrimination has been one of the few successful discrimination based lawsuits that have been brought against companies in the tech world.
- robomartin 2y ago
  > Age discrimination has been one of the few successful discrimination based lawsuits that have been brought against companies in the tech world. Rarely. A quick search indicates that only 3% of older employees file complaints, and, out of that, less than 1% result in lawsuits. And that is pertaining to people who are already employed somewhere. What we are talking about here is finding a job. In that case the situation is likely far worse and also likely unknowable (in terms of stats). This is why I say it feels like society discards you as useless after a certain fuzzy point in time. This has to be a cultural change over time. I say this because, as a young engineer, I wanted to work with older, more experienced, engineers. In fact, I seriously benefitted from many mentors who were ten to twenty years older than me --lessons that have stayed with me to this day. Not so today. I have been at companies where you might as well be at a college campus. I'll name one: SpaceX. I don't know the stats, but I remember going through there and thinking that the ratio of 20-somethings to older engineers has to be in a range between 50:1 and 100:1. The only way that happens is if you actively reject older candidates. I cannot dispute their success rate and what they have accomplished. I am just using this as a real example of just how bad it can be out there for older technologists. Note that I am not proposing forced diversity of any kind. I think that is wrong. However, work and opportunities should be available based on experience, merit and capabilities and not at the exclusion of older candidates because they are not frat boys. Once again, I will point at least one finger squarely at YC. I think they blatantly practice age discrimination. There is no fucking way older, experienced and capable engineers and scientists cannot innovate and launch successful startups. There's so much talent and potential out there being discarded. And, of course, there is no such thing as filing a lawsuit against an investor for age discrimination. On my end, once I understood this reality I chose to exit the race and run my own business. Here I get to use my skills and experience to plot my own future, with the help of those who join me. And I most definitely appreciate the value of experience. There's nothing better than working with people who are better than you are and bring enough insight and experience to the table to help you steer clear of a long list of things you should not do.

addicted 2y ago

While I agree age discrimination in tech is a huge problem, it’s hardly true that it hasn’t received attention. Age discrimination has been one of the few successful discrimination based lawsuits that have been brought against companies in the tech world.

robomartin 2y ago
> Age discrimination has been one of the few successful discrimination based lawsuits that have been brought against companies in the tech world. Rarely. A quick search indicates that only 3% of older employees file complaints, and, out of that, less than 1% result in lawsuits. And that is pertaining to people who are already employed somewhere. What we are talking about here is finding a job. In that case the situation is likely far worse and also likely unknowable (in terms of stats). This is why I say it feels like society discards you as useless after a certain fuzzy point in time. This has to be a cultural change over time. I say this because, as a young engineer, I wanted to work with older, more experienced, engineers. In fact, I seriously benefitted from many mentors who were ten to twenty years older than me --lessons that have stayed with me to this day. Not so today. I have been at companies where you might as well be at a college campus. I'll name one: SpaceX. I don't know the stats, but I remember going through there and thinking that the ratio of 20-somethings to older engineers has to be in a range between 50:1 and 100:1. The only way that happens is if you actively reject older candidates. I cannot dispute their success rate and what they have accomplished. I am just using this as a real example of just how bad it can be out there for older technologists. Note that I am not proposing forced diversity of any kind. I think that is wrong. However, work and opportunities should be available based on experience, merit and capabilities and not at the exclusion of older candidates because they are not frat boys. Once again, I will point at least one finger squarely at YC. I think they blatantly practice age discrimination. There is no fucking way older, experienced and capable engineers and scientists cannot innovate and launch successful startups. There's so much talent and potential out there being discarded. And, of course, there is no such thing as filing a lawsuit against an investor for age discrimination. On my end, once I understood this reality I chose to exit the race and run my own business. Here I get to use my skills and experience to plot my own future, with the help of those who join me. And I most definitely appreciate the value of experience. There's nothing better than working with people who are better than you are and bring enough insight and experience to the table to help you steer clear of a long list of things you should not do.