5 ms·

Somewhat similar and probably easier to achieve would be trees floating in open ocean, and some kind of plant capable to bring nutrients up from the large depth

by chr1 2y ago

Somewhat similar and probably easier to achieve would be trees floating in open ocean, and some kind of plant capable to bring nutrients up from the large depth. Currently most of the ocean is a lifeless desert, with most of life concentrated in the places where upwelling occurs. This kind of floating trees would add enough biomass to compensate for all of the human produced CO2 and even more.

soared 2y ago
I don’t think trees and live on saltwater
- chr1 2y ago
  Plants don't live in open space either, and yet the submitted page wants to research possibilities. Using some genes from mangroves it should be possible to develop a plant that would grow in open sea.
- tlb 2y ago
  Mangroves do. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mangrove https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mangrove
the_sleaze_ 2y ago
> Floating trees in the open ocean. The more refined version of this are intentionally created algal blooms, ala the red tide. Then you would somehow capture the CO2 dissolved in ocean water that the algae concentrates. In this way you'd use the ocean itself as your carbon capture "filter" and "clean the filter". The issue is that since there just isn't enough nutrients for life, and adding fertilizers costs more carbon than it sequesters. The deep ocean usually gets its nitrogen from life dying above, decaying downwards then getting pushed upwards again. I don't know of any deep ocean reserves of nitrogen that just needs brought to the surface.
- chr1 2y ago
  Nitrogen is easy, it can be captured from air, iron is the main thing missing in surface water that must be brought up by upwelling. But having real trees above the water is much more useful than simple carbon capture, they would serve as wavebreakers for seasteading settlements too.
  - the_sleaze_ 2y ago
    You're right, there seems to be iron rich deep sea currents in some places that could be good opportunities for upwelling, especially if you had a carbon neutral way to do it. There is also emerging technology for nitrogen fixing that could work - Electrocatalytic Nitrogen Reduction. All this being said, if the goal is carbon sequestration building a viable business is going to be next to impossible. The easiest way would be to use your renewable energy to pull bicarbonate out of the ocean directly with electrolysis, reverse-osmosis, whatever magic tech the wizards in MIT are cooking up. Only then you've got the problem of what to do with it all once you've got it on hand. [1] https://www.nature.com/articles/s41467-023-36992-1 https://www.nature.com/articles/s41467-023-36992-1
    - chr1 2y ago
      Carbon sequestration is merely a side effect, the main goal is to have a wavebreaker and a park and a place to grow fruits, for a floating city. To bring nutrient rich water up and to generate energy in the process temperature difference between surface and deep water can be used [1]. So if this kind of tree is created, living on open sea can become cheaper and more pleasant than even living on a beach. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ocean_thermal_energy_conversion https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ocean_thermal_energy_conversio...
      - the_sleaze_ 2y ago
        Ok, I was misunderstanding. Ocean thermal energy conversion - I hadn't heard of this, this is awesome.
closewith 2y ago
Unlikely to be any unintended consequences to foresting the ocean, too. Plain sailing. People really will pretend to believe any old nonsense rather than accept we have to cut fossil fuel use.
- dingnuts 2y ago
  if you think industrialized society should give up oil without alternatives then you should be honest and say that you believe we that the industrial revolution was a mistake and that we should by-and-large go back to an agrarian society where most people subsistence farm. you can have that belief, that everyone should give up what oil gives us and live in a pre-modern way that most people would, today, consider poverty, because the alternative is (I assume you believe) extinction. But you should be honest about it.
  - closewith 2y ago
    These schemes are only ever a smokescreen to avoid alternatives, which is something you should be honest with yourself about.
    - chr1 2y ago
      A few years ago an oil selling dictator, used his oil money to attack and occupy my friends country, killed my friend, and forced all the population to flee without ability to take anything with them. So if you think that i like the situation where everyone supports dictatorships like Azerbaijan by buying their oil, you are very wrong. But what we want and what is going to happen is often very different. Cutting fossil fuel use will not happen until there are better alternatives. And at that point most likely there will be enough CO2 in atmosphere to trigger melting of permafrost which will produce its own CO2. So "these schemes" will be needed one way or another. That said my main interest here is seasteading, and increasing ocean biomass. Reducing atmospheric CO2 is merely a curios side effect.
Jgrubb 2y ago
Reminds me of that section of Life of Pi.
mmooss 2y ago
> Currently most of the ocean is a lifeless desert Where can I read more about that? My understanding was that it is teaming with microorganisms or near-microorganisms, and of course there are many fauna and flora and protista and other life forms.
- chr1 2y ago
  E.g. https://www.eodashboard.org/story?id=primary-productivity&page=1 https://www.eodashboard.org/story?id=primary-productivity&pa... For water to team with life, you need materials for building cells in the same place where the light is, and in most cases there is not enough iron on the surface
  - mmooss 2y ago
    Thanks! And that is a great resource.

by chr1 2y ago

soared 2y ago

I don’t think trees and live on saltwater

chr1 2y ago
Plants don't live in open space either, and yet the submitted page wants to research possibilities. Using some genes from mangroves it should be possible to develop a plant that would grow in open sea.
tlb 2y ago
Mangroves do. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mangrove https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mangrove

the_sleaze_ 2y ago

> Floating trees in the open ocean. The more refined version of this are intentionally created algal blooms, ala the red tide. Then you would somehow capture the CO2 dissolved in ocean water that the algae concentrates. In this way you'd use the ocean itself as your carbon capture "filter" and "clean the filter". The issue is that since there just isn't enough nutrients for life, and adding fertilizers costs more carbon than it sequesters. The deep ocean usually gets its nitrogen from life dying above, decaying downwards then getting pushed upwards again. I don't know of any deep ocean reserves of nitrogen that just needs brought to the surface.

chr1 2y ago
Nitrogen is easy, it can be captured from air, iron is the main thing missing in surface water that must be brought up by upwelling. But having real trees above the water is much more useful than simple carbon capture, they would serve as wavebreakers for seasteading settlements too.
- the_sleaze_ 2y ago
  You're right, there seems to be iron rich deep sea currents in some places that could be good opportunities for upwelling, especially if you had a carbon neutral way to do it. There is also emerging technology for nitrogen fixing that could work - Electrocatalytic Nitrogen Reduction. All this being said, if the goal is carbon sequestration building a viable business is going to be next to impossible. The easiest way would be to use your renewable energy to pull bicarbonate out of the ocean directly with electrolysis, reverse-osmosis, whatever magic tech the wizards in MIT are cooking up. Only then you've got the problem of what to do with it all once you've got it on hand. [1] https://www.nature.com/articles/s41467-023-36992-1 https://www.nature.com/articles/s41467-023-36992-1
  - chr1 2y ago
    Carbon sequestration is merely a side effect, the main goal is to have a wavebreaker and a park and a place to grow fruits, for a floating city. To bring nutrient rich water up and to generate energy in the process temperature difference between surface and deep water can be used [1]. So if this kind of tree is created, living on open sea can become cheaper and more pleasant than even living on a beach. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ocean_thermal_energy_conversion https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ocean_thermal_energy_conversio...
    - the_sleaze_ 2y ago
      Ok, I was misunderstanding. Ocean thermal energy conversion - I hadn't heard of this, this is awesome.

closewith 2y ago

Unlikely to be any unintended consequences to foresting the ocean, too. Plain sailing. People really will pretend to believe any old nonsense rather than accept we have to cut fossil fuel use.

dingnuts 2y ago
if you think industrialized society should give up oil without alternatives then you should be honest and say that you believe we that the industrial revolution was a mistake and that we should by-and-large go back to an agrarian society where most people subsistence farm. you can have that belief, that everyone should give up what oil gives us and live in a pre-modern way that most people would, today, consider poverty, because the alternative is (I assume you believe) extinction. But you should be honest about it.
- closewith 2y ago
  These schemes are only ever a smokescreen to avoid alternatives, which is something you should be honest with yourself about.
  - chr1 2y ago
    A few years ago an oil selling dictator, used his oil money to attack and occupy my friends country, killed my friend, and forced all the population to flee without ability to take anything with them. So if you think that i like the situation where everyone supports dictatorships like Azerbaijan by buying their oil, you are very wrong. But what we want and what is going to happen is often very different. Cutting fossil fuel use will not happen until there are better alternatives. And at that point most likely there will be enough CO2 in atmosphere to trigger melting of permafrost which will produce its own CO2. So "these schemes" will be needed one way or another. That said my main interest here is seasteading, and increasing ocean biomass. Reducing atmospheric CO2 is merely a curios side effect.

Jgrubb 2y ago

Reminds me of that section of Life of Pi.

mmooss 2y ago

> Currently most of the ocean is a lifeless desert Where can I read more about that? My understanding was that it is teaming with microorganisms or near-microorganisms, and of course there are many fauna and flora and protista and other life forms.

chr1 2y ago
E.g. https://www.eodashboard.org/story?id=primary-productivity&page=1 https://www.eodashboard.org/story?id=primary-productivity&pa... For water to team with life, you need materials for building cells in the same place where the light is, and in most cases there is not enough iron on the surface
- mmooss 2y ago
  Thanks! And that is a great resource.