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I wonder if there will come a time when the HN audience will stop being amazed that some system is Turing complete, or that any Turing-complete system can run D

by layer8 2y ago

I wonder if there will come a time when the HN audience will stop being amazed that some system is Turing complete, or that any Turing-complete system can run Doom (barring resource constraints). Maybe I’ve just seen it too often. The fact that TypeScript’s type system is Turing-complete was shown back in 2017 [0], and then of course you can run Doom on it. [0] https://github.com/microsoft/TypeScript/issues/14833 https://github.com/microsoft/TypeScript/issues/14833

__alexander 2y ago
I think you missed the part about how much effort they put into it.
graynk 2y ago
There’s a difference between a _system_ being Turing complete and something actually _using_ that Turing-completeness to make something arbitrary run on it. You can’t deny this is an impressive effort.
- layer8 2y ago
  It’s a considerable amount of work for sure, but that alone doesn’t make it impressive. Maybe there were particularly difficult hurdles to overcome that were solved in novel ways? But I don’t see such noteworthy aspects being mentioned in this thread, and it’s not evident at all that there should be any.
  - kristiandupont 2y ago
    Oh come on, are you seriously being blasé about this? What could ever impress you?
    - rvnx 2y ago
      A time-travel machine would be really impressive, I would give all my money for that, and even upvote the thread.
  - rictic 2y ago
    Is this your reaction when someone climbs a mountain? "Bipedal locomotion was shown sufficient for climbing mountains centuries ago, given reasonable assumptions about the terrain, why should I be impressed?" Doing things can be difficult and admirable, even if it was confidently believed possible beforehand.
    - layer8 2y ago
      > Is this your reaction when someone climbs a mountain? My reaction then isn’t “wow, this blows my mind that it’s possible”. The first time someone climbing Mount Everest 72 years ago was impressive and possibly astounding. Nowadays, not really that much.
      - saagarjha 2y ago
        It’s still impressive if your manager does it. Or your date. Or your mom.
frankfrank13 2y ago
> I wonder if there will come a time when the HN audience will stop being amazed that some system is Turing complete The time is now, but if you had said > I wonder if there will come a time when the HN audience will stop being amazed that some system can run Doom The answer is never, and particularly not when its this insane to even try
regularfry 2y ago
Ah yes, the Underpants Gnomes theory of Doom execution: 1) Show that a system is Turing complete 2) ??? 3) Run Doom on it. Step 2 is, of course, always trivial, and no amount of effort or technical nous that goes into actually getting to step 3 can possibly be relevant.
sizeofchar 2y ago
There is a big gap between "Turing complete"-able and "real-time, interactive, graphical and performant"-thing.
- Philpax 2y ago
  To be fair, this is graphical, but it's not real-time, not performant, and while it technically takes input, it'll be a while before you see it reflected in the output.
brap 2y ago
We know that humans are capable of writing amazing symphonies or running a 2h marathon, so there’s no point in doing it? Just because we know something is possible in theory doesn’t mean it’s not impressive to see it done in practice. There was a lot of effort and creativity involved here.

by layer8 2y ago

__alexander 2y ago

I think you missed the part about how much effort they put into it.

graynk 2y ago

There’s a difference between a _system_ being Turing complete and something actually _using_ that Turing-completeness to make something arbitrary run on it. You can’t deny this is an impressive effort.

layer8 2y ago
It’s a considerable amount of work for sure, but that alone doesn’t make it impressive. Maybe there were particularly difficult hurdles to overcome that were solved in novel ways? But I don’t see such noteworthy aspects being mentioned in this thread, and it’s not evident at all that there should be any.
- kristiandupont 2y ago
  Oh come on, are you seriously being blasé about this? What could ever impress you?
  - rvnx 2y ago
    A time-travel machine would be really impressive, I would give all my money for that, and even upvote the thread.
- rictic 2y ago
  Is this your reaction when someone climbs a mountain? "Bipedal locomotion was shown sufficient for climbing mountains centuries ago, given reasonable assumptions about the terrain, why should I be impressed?" Doing things can be difficult and admirable, even if it was confidently believed possible beforehand.
  - layer8 2y ago
    > Is this your reaction when someone climbs a mountain? My reaction then isn’t “wow, this blows my mind that it’s possible”. The first time someone climbing Mount Everest 72 years ago was impressive and possibly astounding. Nowadays, not really that much.
    - saagarjha 2y ago
      It’s still impressive if your manager does it. Or your date. Or your mom.

frankfrank13 2y ago

> I wonder if there will come a time when the HN audience will stop being amazed that some system is Turing complete The time is now, but if you had said > I wonder if there will come a time when the HN audience will stop being amazed that some system can run Doom The answer is never, and particularly not when its this insane to even try

regularfry 2y ago

Ah yes, the Underpants Gnomes theory of Doom execution: 1) Show that a system is Turing complete 2) ??? 3) Run Doom on it. Step 2 is, of course, always trivial, and no amount of effort or technical nous that goes into actually getting to step 3 can possibly be relevant.

sizeofchar 2y ago

There is a big gap between "Turing complete"-able and "real-time, interactive, graphical and performant"-thing.

Philpax 2y ago
To be fair, this is graphical, but it's not real-time, not performant, and while it technically takes input, it'll be a while before you see it reflected in the output.

brap 2y ago

We know that humans are capable of writing amazing symphonies or running a 2h marathon, so there’s no point in doing it? Just because we know something is possible in theory doesn’t mean it’s not impressive to see it done in practice. There was a lot of effort and creativity involved here.