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Zero hours contracts are likely the unintended consequence of other (employment) regulation. People / Organisations (this includes private businesses and organi

Zero hours contracts are likely the unintended consequence of other (employment) regulation. People / Organisations (this includes private businesses and organisation, as well as state owned organisation) will try to circumvent any limits placed on it. You seem to be of the belief that if you "tweak the nobs" just right, things will be magically be fixed, this is naive. The law of unintended consequences has been observed countless times throughout history when people have tried to do exactly that. This is extremely naive. Even Star Trek itself that you appear to be a fan of. The Earth is post scarcity, they show that the Federation isn't the benevolent force that they pretend to be (This is hinted multiple times in TNG and shown outright in DS9) and that there are others that are negatively affected by the Federation and its policies e.g the Marquis.

rbanffy 2y ago
> Zero hours contracts are likely the unintended consequence That's hard to believe. It's such an obvious outcome.
- EndShell 2y ago
  Considering there are long essays and writings about the law of unintended consequences it would suggest that these thing are not obvious.
  - rbanffy 2y ago
    They can always claim the consequences were unintentional, but that doesn’t make them less unbelievably convenient for the people who say they had no intention of causing them.
    - EndShell 2y ago
      It really depends what you want to believe doesn't it. Purely asserting it is obvious because you believe it to be so, isn't proof that it was deliberate. As I previously said there has been a lot written about the law of unintended consequences and many cases where it wasn't obvious, it seems you haven't cared to read any of it, otherwise you wouldn't have this attitude.
_DeadFred_ 2y ago
I am of the belief that people in zero hour jobs are basically fucked, and that because a large portion of our businesses use zero hour jobs our society in fact has stagnation in poverty systemically built in/designed in. Star Trek's a cool show. The bible's a cool book. They are guides on how to do better, not reality, not true events. That doesn't change that they can be used to reflect on ourselves/our society to improve them, nor does that condemn us to accept immorality/lower standards as inevitable.
- EndShell 2y ago
  > I am of the belief that people in zero hour jobs are basically fucked, and that because a large portion of our businesses use zero hour jobs our society in fact has stagnation in poverty systemically built in/designed in. 1) People take zero hour jobs for various reasons. I worked on minimum wage for 8 years, I wasn't condemned to a life of poverty. 2) You have no proof of it being "designed in" because zero hour contracts exist. Repeating the statement does not make it true. The fact is that the law of unintended consequences is a thing that has been observed repeatedly. 3) I don't view it as "our" society. I don't even really know what people mean by that. I don't see it like that at all. I live in a country (England) and I see the government/state as adversarial to my interests generally. Many of the people in England and the UK don't share many of the same values as I do. > Star Trek's a cool show. The bible's a cool book. They are guides on how to do better, not reality, not true events. The fact that you equate Star Trek with the Bible is very troubling. Star Trek is an entertainment show with a fanbase, it is not a guide to do better. The Bible on the hand is much more important (even if many here don't recognise its importance) and this is coming from someone that is an Atheist. > That doesn't change that they can be used to reflect on ourselves/our society to improve them, nor does that condemn us to accept immorality/lower standards as inevitable. The point I was making that many people don't agree on what the improvement should be. What you believe is an improvement / moral etc. maybe seen by others as regressions and/or immoral. The writers in DS9 understood there were those that had this different point of view.
  - jemmyw 2y ago
    I mean, I've read enough of the Bible to know it's pretty out there. It's packed with the writings of humans who lived in a time so different to now, with interpreted translations. Shakespeare's writings are a lot more relevant to us, although maybe inspirational rather than aspirational, and far better written. A modern take with updated aspirations that is understandable and approachable isn't a bad thing to equate it to, even if it's the basis for an entertainment.

rbanffy 2y ago

> Zero hours contracts are likely the unintended consequence That's hard to believe. It's such an obvious outcome.

EndShell 2y ago
Considering there are long essays and writings about the law of unintended consequences it would suggest that these thing are not obvious.
- rbanffy 2y ago
  They can always claim the consequences were unintentional, but that doesn’t make them less unbelievably convenient for the people who say they had no intention of causing them.
  - EndShell 2y ago
    It really depends what you want to believe doesn't it. Purely asserting it is obvious because you believe it to be so, isn't proof that it was deliberate. As I previously said there has been a lot written about the law of unintended consequences and many cases where it wasn't obvious, it seems you haven't cared to read any of it, otherwise you wouldn't have this attitude.

_DeadFred_ 2y ago

I am of the belief that people in zero hour jobs are basically fucked, and that because a large portion of our businesses use zero hour jobs our society in fact has stagnation in poverty systemically built in/designed in. Star Trek's a cool show. The bible's a cool book. They are guides on how to do better, not reality, not true events. That doesn't change that they can be used to reflect on ourselves/our society to improve them, nor does that condemn us to accept immorality/lower standards as inevitable.

EndShell 2y ago
> I am of the belief that people in zero hour jobs are basically fucked, and that because a large portion of our businesses use zero hour jobs our society in fact has stagnation in poverty systemically built in/designed in. 1) People take zero hour jobs for various reasons. I worked on minimum wage for 8 years, I wasn't condemned to a life of poverty. 2) You have no proof of it being "designed in" because zero hour contracts exist. Repeating the statement does not make it true. The fact is that the law of unintended consequences is a thing that has been observed repeatedly. 3) I don't view it as "our" society. I don't even really know what people mean by that. I don't see it like that at all. I live in a country (England) and I see the government/state as adversarial to my interests generally. Many of the people in England and the UK don't share many of the same values as I do. > Star Trek's a cool show. The bible's a cool book. They are guides on how to do better, not reality, not true events. The fact that you equate Star Trek with the Bible is very troubling. Star Trek is an entertainment show with a fanbase, it is not a guide to do better. The Bible on the hand is much more important (even if many here don't recognise its importance) and this is coming from someone that is an Atheist. > That doesn't change that they can be used to reflect on ourselves/our society to improve them, nor does that condemn us to accept immorality/lower standards as inevitable. The point I was making that many people don't agree on what the improvement should be. What you believe is an improvement / moral etc. maybe seen by others as regressions and/or immoral. The writers in DS9 understood there were those that had this different point of view.
- jemmyw 2y ago
  I mean, I've read enough of the Bible to know it's pretty out there. It's packed with the writings of humans who lived in a time so different to now, with interpreted translations. Shakespeare's writings are a lot more relevant to us, although maybe inspirational rather than aspirational, and far better written. A modern take with updated aspirations that is understandable and approachable isn't a bad thing to equate it to, even if it's the basis for an entertainment.