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Democrats Need to Clean House

9 points by hitekker 2y ago

deleted 2y ago
[deleted]
techorange 2y ago
On the one hand, I don't disagree, and I certainly don't think the right strategy is for Pete Buttigieg to sit on his hands and not say anything. But, Republicans are no better. Like outside of a few key celebrities (and even within those key celebrities) are a bunch of people who look even more out of touch than the average Democrat. Trump and Elon Musk are maybe two of the greatest salespeople the world has ever seen (and within that all the implications that implies) But like, arguably even Pete Buttigieg, probably the best communicator in the party right now can't come close to them. The point of which is to just assess benchmarks. What is the art of the possible? We should certainly expect more of the leaders of the party, and I think everyone suspects there are core problems at the top, but the rank and file will probably always be sort of a median level of successful. Though we could go like the Republicans and just do some ideological purges.
- techorange 2y ago
  I guess another question -- Maybe I don't understand how the DNC works, but who are these people specifically? I don't think Obama wants this. Neither Kamala nor Tim Walz ran on this. Mark Cuban doesn't, nor do I think any of the silicon valley Democrat Billionaires. Maybe Nancy Pelosi does? I don't really I guess know who the shadow super-progressive woke figures are, nor how to get rid of them. Like it's weird that a lot of the public leadership seems to get it, but that there's this perception that the "DNC" or "Democrats" don't.
  - rawgabbit 2y ago
    The Democrats are beholden to their base just as the Republicans are beholden to their base. The problem is that the base demands a "purity" test of all their politicians. This litmus test is anathema to the majority of voters by demanding what is essentially reverse-discrimination, pro-crime, and pro-non-citizens policies. The Democrats will never get elected this way. And I am a Democrat that wants Democrats to get elected.
pinewurst 2y ago
https://archive.ph/XkURo https://archive.ph/XkURo
taylodl 2y ago
I don't want the Democratic Party to pander to voters. I want them to provide a cohesive alternative - which they have done. What they haven't done as good a job with is articulating that alternative. As has been the case for decades with the Democrats, if people had come out to vote, then Kamala would likely have won. But the turnout was down. Historically, that always favors the Republicans. What were the people staying at home thinking? What we've heard is they were thinking something along the lines of both parties are the same, so it makes no difference, or they were grousing over how the Democrats weren't forthright about having a primary. Well, they're now realizing both parties are not the same, and those grousing about the lack of a primary are now feeling foolish for sitting out. BUT - what I'm starting to get really sick of is liberals blaming our current woes on the Democrats. I'm sorry. You knew what Trump was and you knew what was at stake. If that wasn't enough to motivate you to get off your rear end and get to the polls, then that's on you.
- techorange 2y ago
  I think part of the problem is that Republicans understand that message matters much more than substance much better than Democrats. This is why a former-reality TV star does so well as president. All I hear from a lot of the sort of old-school Democrat flag-bearers (Biden, Jeffries, etc) seems to be this consistent drum beat of, if only people knew what we were doing, they would support us.
  - taylodl 2y ago
    > if only people knew what we were doing Biden never beat his own drum. He expected the facts to speak for themselves. Maybe that worked for his generation, but it was woefully out of touch for younger generations. Thing is, Kamala should have known better. The fact she didn't tells me waylaying Biden wasn't a coup, it was just as big of a surprise to her, and she was unprepared. So, while "Not Trump" should have been a campaign that succeeded, I certainly understand why people were unimpressed with it. In my case I wasn't so much voting for Kamala as I was voting against Trump - which was a repeat of 2020. I think people are getting tired of that too, they want to believe in something and vote for it. I get it, but that wasn't our reality.

9 points by hitekker 2y ago

deleted 2y ago

[deleted]

On the one hand, I don't disagree, and I certainly don't think the right strategy is for Pete Buttigieg to sit on his hands and not say anything. But, Republicans are no better. Like outside of a few key celebrities (and even within those key celebrities) are a bunch of people who look even more out of touch than the average Democrat. Trump and Elon Musk are maybe two of the greatest salespeople the world has ever seen (and within that all the implications that implies) But like, arguably even Pete Buttigieg, probably the best communicator in the party right now can't come close to them. The point of which is to just assess benchmarks. What is the art of the possible? We should certainly expect more of the leaders of the party, and I think everyone suspects there are core problems at the top, but the rank and file will probably always be sort of a median level of successful. Though we could go like the Republicans and just do some ideological purges.

techorange 2y ago
I guess another question -- Maybe I don't understand how the DNC works, but who are these people specifically? I don't think Obama wants this. Neither Kamala nor Tim Walz ran on this. Mark Cuban doesn't, nor do I think any of the silicon valley Democrat Billionaires. Maybe Nancy Pelosi does? I don't really I guess know who the shadow super-progressive woke figures are, nor how to get rid of them. Like it's weird that a lot of the public leadership seems to get it, but that there's this perception that the "DNC" or "Democrats" don't.
- rawgabbit 2y ago
  The Democrats are beholden to their base just as the Republicans are beholden to their base. The problem is that the base demands a "purity" test of all their politicians. This litmus test is anathema to the majority of voters by demanding what is essentially reverse-discrimination, pro-crime, and pro-non-citizens policies. The Democrats will never get elected this way. And I am a Democrat that wants Democrats to get elected.

pinewurst 2y ago

https://archive.ph/XkURo https://archive.ph/XkURo

taylodl 2y ago

I don't want the Democratic Party to pander to voters. I want them to provide a cohesive alternative - which they have done. What they haven't done as good a job with is articulating that alternative. As has been the case for decades with the Democrats, if people had come out to vote, then Kamala would likely have won. But the turnout was down. Historically, that always favors the Republicans. What were the people staying at home thinking? What we've heard is they were thinking something along the lines of both parties are the same, so it makes no difference, or they were grousing over how the Democrats weren't forthright about having a primary. Well, they're now realizing both parties are not the same, and those grousing about the lack of a primary are now feeling foolish for sitting out. BUT - what I'm starting to get really sick of is liberals blaming our current woes on the Democrats. I'm sorry. You knew what Trump was and you knew what was at stake. If that wasn't enough to motivate you to get off your rear end and get to the polls, then that's on you.

techorange 2y ago
I think part of the problem is that Republicans understand that message matters much more than substance much better than Democrats. This is why a former-reality TV star does so well as president. All I hear from a lot of the sort of old-school Democrat flag-bearers (Biden, Jeffries, etc) seems to be this consistent drum beat of, if only people knew what we were doing, they would support us.
- taylodl 2y ago
  > if only people knew what we were doing Biden never beat his own drum. He expected the facts to speak for themselves. Maybe that worked for his generation, but it was woefully out of touch for younger generations. Thing is, Kamala should have known better. The fact she didn't tells me waylaying Biden wasn't a coup, it was just as big of a surprise to her, and she was unprepared. So, while "Not Trump" should have been a campaign that succeeded, I certainly understand why people were unimpressed with it. In my case I wasn't so much voting for Kamala as I was voting against Trump - which was a repeat of 2020. I think people are getting tired of that too, they want to believe in something and vote for it. I get it, but that wasn't our reality.