3 ms·

I think the miserable state of cellular modems ultimately comes from the power dynamics of private spectrum. The 3GPP protocols are complex because they're not

I think the miserable state of cellular modems ultimately comes from the power dynamics of private spectrum. The 3GPP protocols are complex because they're not really beholden to the implementers, but rather to the network operators. The operators are fine with additional complexity if it serves their interests, and the cost will just be passed on to the OEMs. The network operators have all the power because they're the ones with the licenses. WiFi tends to be simpler in part because the protocol authors are working more in the interest of the implementers, since it's really they who decide whether to adopt or not. Obviously a gross simplification but I think it's at the heart of the problem.

dilyevsky 2y ago
Vendors wrote those standards though, not the operators. They are complex because it’s a defensive moat against competition imho
- tinktank 2y ago
  They are complex because, usually, they are a union of everything every vendor in the consortium has done and/or wants to do.
  - astrobe_ 2y ago
    Looking at the overview of the architecture on the network side [1] tells the tale, I think. My take is that telecom operators forcefully had to evolve from Morse and copper to IP and radio, hacking stuff left and right every step of the way. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IP_Multimedia_Subsystem#Architecture https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IP_Multimedia_Subsystem#Archit...
    - dilyevsky 2y ago
      Long time ago i worked on WiMAX devices which was a competing standard for the term “4g” from ieee and while it was simpler it wasn’t a whole lot simpler and performance sucked, so there’s that
    - kalleboo 2y ago
      When GSM was created by the European telcos (at the time they were still monopolies) a lot of care went into making the different parts decoupled with defined standards between the different parts, so that they could pit vendors against each other to avoid getting locked into vendor silos. This contributes a lot to the standards bloat since every interface needs to be defined. In contrast there were the Qualcomm CMDA standards which were all proprietary and in-house, which had some upsides, but in the end carriers preferred the open standard with vendor competition. There's a book called "GSM and UMTS: The Creation of Global Mobile Communication" about the history which is really interesting.

dilyevsky 2y ago

Vendors wrote those standards though, not the operators. They are complex because it’s a defensive moat against competition imho

tinktank 2y ago
They are complex because, usually, they are a union of everything every vendor in the consortium has done and/or wants to do.
- astrobe_ 2y ago
  Looking at the overview of the architecture on the network side [1] tells the tale, I think. My take is that telecom operators forcefully had to evolve from Morse and copper to IP and radio, hacking stuff left and right every step of the way. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IP_Multimedia_Subsystem#Architecture https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IP_Multimedia_Subsystem#Archit...
  - dilyevsky 2y ago
    Long time ago i worked on WiMAX devices which was a competing standard for the term “4g” from ieee and while it was simpler it wasn’t a whole lot simpler and performance sucked, so there’s that
  - kalleboo 2y ago
    When GSM was created by the European telcos (at the time they were still monopolies) a lot of care went into making the different parts decoupled with defined standards between the different parts, so that they could pit vendors against each other to avoid getting locked into vendor silos. This contributes a lot to the standards bloat since every interface needs to be defined. In contrast there were the Qualcomm CMDA standards which were all proprietary and in-house, which had some upsides, but in the end carriers preferred the open standard with vendor competition. There's a book called "GSM and UMTS: The Creation of Global Mobile Communication" about the history which is really interesting.