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The author expresses my attitude toward money almost perfectly. I'll even go a step further: I hate money. It's a thing I have to deal with, but I hate every bi
by JohnFen 2y ago
The author expresses my attitude toward money almost perfectly. I'll even go a step further: I hate money. It's a thing I have to deal with, but I hate every bit of it. I hate that I'm forced to devote so much of my life and mind to it. I hate that it rules every aspect of my life. I hate that its used as a weapon by those who want to subjugate me or harm me (for more money, even). I hate that it tends to ruin everything.
It's a huge downer all around and reduces my ability to enjoy life. But, such is life. I'm forced to deal with it, so I do. But I yearn for a better way.
- azemetre 2y agoSuch is not life friend. Society is whatever we want to be. The rules are made up and we, the people, can decide what society should value. It doesn't have to be this way, it can change. Maybe not in our lifetimes but we plant the seeds so future generations can live better lives.
- JohnFen 2y agoBig picture, you're absolutely right and I do what I can to plant those seeds. However, while that could help future generations and so is worth doing, it doesn't actually help me in the here and now. There's nothing I can do that will positively change things on this count within my lifetime.
- netrap 2y agoPerhaps there is just something small you can do that is passed down or acknowledged by others who will pass it on. A behavior, an action, or some other change.
- tim333 2y agoThere is probably a big change coming with AI. At the moment we need to pay people to work so stuff gets done but if AI can do it instead that goes away.
- do_not_redeem 2y agoThe hype is reaching absurd levels. Don't save for retirement, wait for AI instead! I'll just say this... if you actually believe AI will make money obsolete, I'd be happy to take all your obsolete currency off your hands.
- azemetre 2y agoThe actual scenario is that more wealth will be captured by the elites while hundreds of millions of people suffer or die from poverty. What we actually need is another luddite revolution.
- tim333 2y agoI figure we'll get something like socialism.
- rbanffy 2y agoI'm trying. My daughter loves Star Trek and I have had over the years extensive discussions with my older sons about how poverty is designed into our society and how eradicating it could be easy with just a couple minor adjustments. Unfortunately, the world has been turning in the wrong direction - basic human decency is considered "woke" and "leftism". Any attempt to make a just society is called "communism" and shouted down aggressively by the people who would most benefit from it. We need to change these things. Something Gorbachev said on the fall of the Soviet Union stuck with me for the past couple decades, that they "failed because they tried to make a better man". Are we that doomed?
- card_zero 2y agoYes, but no more doomed than that. It'll probably be alright.
- sithadmin 2y agoIs poverty really 'designed into our society'? It seems to me that the underlying aspects of poverty - particularly resource scarcity and insecurity - are inherent aspects of the 'state of nature', which are only escapable via the cooperative mechanisms associated with the formation of society and governance. Sure, these things aren't 100% effective at eliminating poverty, but the proposition that poverty is somehow an intentionally baked-in objective seems hyperbolic. Further, the notion that the USSR failed because "they tried to make a better man" is an absurd whitewashing of Soviet history.
- throawayonthe 2y ago[dead]
- BoxOfRain 2y ago>Further, the notion that the USSR failed because "they tried to make a better man" is an absurd whitewashing of Soviet history. Isn't he referring specifically to the notion of the 'New Soviet Man' here, the idea that a communist economic model would produce fundamentally different humans as a result? I can see why he would describe that as a flawed approach, but you're right that it'd be an odd thing to blame for the fall of the Soviet Union over the other factors which contributed to it.
- card_zero 2y ago> The rules are made up Not much. The rules have emerged, there's only small amounts of deliberate interference with that natural process.* Deliberate societal rules (statute laws, rulings) have to fit to what's politically viable, which is to say, what people in general like: and people in general are incoherent, only diffidently cooperative, and run on intuition, so mostly we get accidental rules instead of deliberately designed ones. * Interesting instance of when the word "natural" applies to things created by humans.
- rbanffy 2y agoWe could be bonobos, but we chose to be chimpanzees.
- ASalazarMX 2y agoIt's debatable if even bonobos chose to be bonobos. I wouldn't want to make out with my neighbors to solve conflicts anyway.
- rbanffy 2y ago> I wouldn't want to make out with my neighbors to solve conflicts anyway. You clearly need to move ;-)
- bluGill 2y agoBe careful though. It is very easy to change for what looks like better but is in fact worse. Most of history money was not something the typical person had or used. Adding money greatly increased freedom for everyone though - it became possible to trade things without complex 10 way barter situations.
- NoMoreNicksLeft 2y ago>I hate that I'm forced to devote so much of my life and mind to it. Your life would be better if you devoted so much time to food, clothing, and shelter? That's what money is. If you dislike money, a mere change in attitude such that you believe you're pursuing the essentials should suffice. >I hate that its used as a weapon by those This seems doubtful. Those in warzones have my sympathy, but I think that it's pretty likely that you live in a place where it's not used as a weapon at all. Your family remains unstarved, no one's burning your crops or confiscating famine relief off the UN trucks. >But I yearn for a better way. You live in an era of material abundance beyond the wildest imaginations of your ancestors. Even poor people are fat. Clothing is so cheap we throw it away if it gets a cheeseburger stain... your grandma didn't slave away for years to gift you that roughspun, sackcloth shirt. Etc etc.
- JohnFen 2y ago> Your life would be better if you devoted so much time to food, clothing, and shelter? That's what money is. That's a very serious oversimplification of the reality, in my opinion. Money, in our society, is much more than a means for survival. > This seems doubtful. I'm not sure how that seems doubtful. All you have to do is pay attention to the news, or (even though this is hardly a modern phenomenon) pay attention to what today's ultrawealthy are saying and doing to see the truth of it. You don't even have to look at the ultrawealthy. For a more common, low-level, example, look at the spying that marketers engage in. They use money to engage in those attacks, and they do it in order to get more money. > You live in an era of material abundance beyond the wildest imaginations of your ancestors. Absolutely true, but irrelevant to my point. > Even poor people are fat. Not because of abundance, but because eating well is too expensive.
- EndShell 2y ago> Not because of abundance, but because eating well is too expensive. No it isn't. Eating poorly is often (much) more expensive that eating properly. Non-processed food is actually reasonably priced for the most part. Fruit and Veg is reasonably cheap. Premium cuts of meat can be expensive. Just looking at my recent trip to the supermarket: * A 6 pack bag of apples (Pink Ladies) was less than £1.50 * A bag of easy peeler oranges was less than £1.50 * A bag of new potatoes £2 * Large Bunch of Bananas are about ~£2 * 12 Pack of Large Eggs - ~£2.50 * 12 Rashers of Bacon - ~£2.50-4 * 1kg packet of Chicken Thighs (Raw) are ~£3.50 (2 chicken thighs a day). * Broccoli ~£1 * Spouts ~£1 * Beans ~£1 * Berry flavoured Tea Bags ~£2 * Bag of Italian Ground Coffee ~£3-4 * 240 Pack of Yorkshire Tea Bags (will last me a month or two) ~£6 * Store brand Olive oil based Margarine ~£2 * Premium Wholemeal Loaf of Bread ~£2-3 * 4 pints of Semi Skimmed Milk £2.50 * Various table Sauces ~£1-2 That is less than £50 and I don't need to buy some of those weekly. Each day I am eating about 1800-2000 calories (I've put myself on a calorie controlled diet to lose weight) and this will last me most of the week if not the entire week. If I buy ready meals they are £3-6 each. Premade Pizza is £4-6. So much more expensive and objectively worse for your health than cooking yourself. One takeaway meal from the local Chinese will cost me £22 (a main and a side), Noodles will cost £7-11 depending on the dish. A pizza from the local pizza shop is £8-10. This excludes delivery. The local deli will charge me £4-5 for a meal deal (Chicken Wrap, Snack and Drink). McDonalds is about £7 for a Big Mac Meal. KFC is similar for one of their Box Meals.
- 56J8XhH7voFRwPR 2y agoThis is life and always has been. It's money today, eons ago it was furs and food. Our hunter gatherer ancestors entire lives were centered around their next meal. The only thing that has changed is the type of "currency".
- JohnFen 2y ago> Our hunter gatherer ancestors entire lives were centered around their next meal. No more so than today. How much time was devoted to survival varies a lot depending on where in the world we're talking about, but a surprisingly large portion of our hunter-gatherer ancestors spent less time devoted to these activities than we do today.
- _DeadFred_ 2y agoSuch a weak response. There was a time I couldn't not crap in my own pants. But because of societies expectations, I learned not to. You are making an excuse for poor behavior so that you can feel better or at least not look as bad to others. There is no reason society can't change. We no longer crap our pants, we no longer dump piss/crap in the streets, even though modern plumbing comes with a monthly expense.
- tim333 2y agoI don't know many hunter gatherers but you can observe a lot of animals around and they uniformly do not have money and not really currency. They do devote quite a lot of time to their next meal, also quite often mating and fighting, although not always. Not to say it's better or worse but you can do life without currency.
- psadauskas 2y agoI agree with you, but frame it slightly differently. Money is fine, even pretty useful. I'm a programmer, and my skill is programming. If I want to eat, I need to find a farmer that needs some programming done so I can trade my skills for his food. If the farmer needs some lumber to fix his fence, he needs to find a lumbermill that needs grain, so he can trade. Instead, with money, we have an intermediate thing we can trade our labor for, and then use it to obtain the other things we need. Instead, I would suggest what you hate is Capitalism, which is different from money. A "market" is a concept that allows everyone to trade their products and services with each other. A Free Market is an academic ideal, that allows every actor in the market to participate with perfect information and without coercion. Capitalism exploits the fact that there's no such thing as a free market, and perverts the market in favor those actors with lots of money and power to exploit and subjugate those who don't. We could tax the wealthy enough that everyone could be given enough money to live on, and do whatever they wanted. Be an artist or a musician, or a programmer. They could work for themselves, or band together with others to produce things and sell them for a profit, and be better off than the minimum. But if they end up working for someone who tries to exploit, subjugate or harm them, then they can just leave without risk, since they'll always have enough money for housing, food and healthcare. But of course, the billionaires would hate this, since it removes the source of their power. They're willing to spend billions of dollars corrupting politicians, generating propaganda, and convincing the rest of us that being exploited is what's best. We as a society could decide fix this, but we have to figure out how to organize with each other, and overcome the billions of dollars spent to prevent it.
- try_the_bass 2y agoJust wanted to say that I appreciate you calling out the distinction between capitalism and free markets. Too often I see them confounded, even though it's pretty trivial to see that they're not the same. Sometimes I think the confounding is intentional, as well.