8 ms·

I am in my mid-70s now and for the first time in my life I can’t find part time work. I have had three really good leads in the last four or five months but in

I am in my mid-70s now and for the first time in my life I can’t find part time work. I have had three really good leads in the last four or five months but in each case there was no job unless I accepted a full time position. Sadly at my age, I don’t have the energy for full time work, so it is what it is. My wife is happy I am not working, and she literally would not accept it if I tried a full time gig, even just for a year or so. One thing that I do is that I keep writing code in my favorite languages Common Lisp, Haskell, Racket, and Python (Python only for deep learning). I also still write.

solumunus 2y ago
There are many full time jobs in SWE where you can easily get away with doing part time hours. Get a full time role and just do less?
- itishappy 2y ago
  And collect a full salary? That sounds rather like admitting there's an SWE bubble, and I can't imagine indicates good things for the future job market...
  - 0_gravitas 2y ago
    It's highly unlikely anyone is producing for all X hours in their work-week, especially in a "thinky" field, there has to be some time for the mind to digest and breathe. For many people this usually happens in the midst of chatting with coworkers, clicking through HN, or staring off longingly into a space that isn't there, passively thinking about a side-project, etc. Why pretend like this digestion time doesn't exist/must happen in an office?
    - dvaun 2y ago
      Ditto. This isn’t exclusive to programming. Everyone that I know who has worked in any office environment has downtime.
    - mywittyname 2y ago
      There's a difference between reading the news at work or chatting about nothing with coworkers for a half-hour a day and working part-time while passing it off as full-time. There are plenty of developers who work 7+ hours a work day, plus a little more at nights or on weekends during crunch times. I'm one of these people and every place I've worked has had these people. It's not like all of our work requires intense concentration - sometimes it's just typing or testing. Sure, there are people who put in very little "real work" by their own admission, and think they are doing just fine. But that's not a luxury afforded to the entire industry
      - welshwelsh 2y ago
        The average office worker is productive for less than 3 hours per day https://www.vouchercloud.com/better-living/office-worker-productivity https://www.vouchercloud.com/better-living/office-worker-pro... That's normal across all industries. If there are people who are actually productive for 7 hours per day, they are extreme outliers. I used to think that I worked 8-10 hours per day. That was until I measured my actual productivity. I worked as a translator once. When I timed myself, I found that I can translate about 2,000 words in 1 hour. But in a day, I struggle to do more than 5,000 words, no matter how hard I push myself- even though that's just 2.5 hours of work! And if I do 5,000 words every day, I burn out within a week.
        yarekt 2y ago
        Exactly. I really like the empirical example. I find that solutions to work problems come to me at most random circumstances, shower, sleep, etc. Also a 15 minute break can unblock something that I’ stuck on for hours. I think it’s important to realise that there’s that limit to productivity, so don’t force it if it’s not working. take a break, come back tomorrow, you may find that you’re far more productive even though you’re spending less time “bums on seats”. Somewhat employer dependent
        datadrivenangel 2y ago
        Machines have a concept of duty cycle! Welding machines are rated to a maximum percentage of time that you can run them before they overheat and shut off. This is helpful for thinking about the importance of rest.
    - itishappy 2y ago
      I consider thinky time to still be on-the-clock, but I don't think that's what the parent had in mind at all when they said "get away with doing part time hours" and "just do less."
    - 6510 2y ago
      In 1594 Philip the Prudent coined the 8 hour work day. It is quite hilarious that after all this time we still can't figure out how long a work day should be for different jobs. I do pretty grueling manual labor at night. The shift is 8, I think about 4 hours is reasonable (under 55), we do about 5. We have to carefully hide the other 3 hours. The shift starts with 20-40 min of planning and organizing which is maybe 4 minutes of work, we glue 10 min in front and behind the lunch break, we rest out of sight, we "finish" early. I often joke that a marathon is only 2 hours if you run really slowly. The culture is to expect us to do 5 marathons in 8 hours, every day! uhh.. i mean every night! Which is every bit as hilarious as it sounds. I calculate for the MBA types that if they cut the shifts in half and raise the pay by 50% people will be well over 25% more productive. Sleeping at night is not overrated. Both the pay raise and the reduced work day are of course culturally unthinkable. Their eyes just glaze over. I further joke that they don't have to understand. They can just join us and run these 25 marathons for a week. Only one week? When coding I prefer either ONE hour/day or 14 days straight 14 to 18 hours/day. That way everything fits in my head and I feel very productive. The endorphin milestones fly by. It's lovely. After that I don't want to see any code for two months. I don't want to even try to explain this to any employer. I probably wouldn't even want to understand it if I was hiring. Philip limited mine workers work days to seven hours! That was 430 years ago. </rant>
  - solumunus 2y ago
    There’s nothing new about it. You won’t get away with it at FAANG, but look for old school enterprise software companies and it’s not hard to find roles where you can get away with putting in a few days per week.
    - 6510 2y ago
      In reality it is worth paying someone who does nothing but knows the answer when the machine stops.
oldpersonintx 2y ago
[dead]
tartoran 2y ago
If you can't find work but you're not pressed by finances have you considered teaching or starting up a community around what you have passion for? Or band up with other people of the same caliber and do something nobody can ignore.
xyst 2y ago
> I am in my mid-70s now It says something about society that asks people to work well beyond their retirement age. I hope you are only looking because it gives you purpose rather than doing it because it’s necessary (ie, medical bills, rent). If it’s the latter, very dystopian and on par for this neoliberal economic hellhole we live in. Personally, if I get to that age. I am cashing in my chips. No way I am working for soulless corporations, whether that’s part time or full time. I would much rather “retire” and work on my own open source projects or contribute to FOSS projects I like. Worst case scenario, I become a wood worker ;)
- ipatch 2y ago
  nothing wrong with carpentry
  - mattbrewsbytes 2y ago
    Especially if you build a banana stand. I hear there’s always money in a banana stand.
- srdesigner 2y ago
  I am 61 and still working at a tech startup. I love startups. I do not have to work any more (not wealthy due to an exit, but I have enough with normal savings and investments to stop now.) In my line of work (not an engineer, but engineer adjacent, lol) it is unusual for someone my age to be employed- it's a young person's game. But I am fortunate because I have attributes that many lack, including extreme tolerance for ambiguity (at work, not at life.) I work because I like it. I like being around smart people doing smart things. But in a couple of years, I will stop working and just spend time lifting weights, practicing bjj and painting.
  - darcwader 2y ago
    i am 40 and am worried about retirement. what sort of retirement planning did you do? how much do you think is a good plan. i love startups, i see similar aspiration to continue to work for startups till 60. i am not interested in creating any sort of generational weath or such as i am already doing what i would like to do, large sum of money won't change anything. but i am asking so i can be a bit peaceful to know some advise from my senior.
gcheong 2y ago
Someone of your caliber could probably get some fractional job gigs, for example: http://fractionaljobs.io/ http://fractionaljobs.io/
- deleted 2y ago
  [deleted]
john2095 2y ago
Mid-70's! Well done. What degradation in ability should I plan for? Any? I envisage myself coding for another 45 years (I'm in my 50s now), but I worry about my ability to concentrate on a single task for long spells, think creatively yet realistically enough to find solutions; to learn the latest fads and tools, and maintain my enthusiasm to keep up with the latest fads and tools. Will my hands get too unsteady to type, my eyes too weak to focus; how long will I be able to sit (or stand) up and work in a session. No-one knows I'm a dog, but they will if I have to turn on the camera or go to the office, so, will I necessarily be transitioned to more results-driven work assignments via tasking sites? (I guess these are the typical prejudices that a hiring team will make when considering an older candidate.) Prepare me. Share your wisdom. What challenges has aging presented to your ability to code?
- gaws 2y ago
  > What degradation in ability should I plan for? Any? Alzheimer's disease.

solumunus 2y ago

There are many full time jobs in SWE where you can easily get away with doing part time hours. Get a full time role and just do less?

itishappy 2y ago
And collect a full salary? That sounds rather like admitting there's an SWE bubble, and I can't imagine indicates good things for the future job market...
- 0_gravitas 2y ago
  It's highly unlikely anyone is producing for all X hours in their work-week, especially in a "thinky" field, there has to be some time for the mind to digest and breathe. For many people this usually happens in the midst of chatting with coworkers, clicking through HN, or staring off longingly into a space that isn't there, passively thinking about a side-project, etc. Why pretend like this digestion time doesn't exist/must happen in an office?
  - dvaun 2y ago
    Ditto. This isn’t exclusive to programming. Everyone that I know who has worked in any office environment has downtime.
  - mywittyname 2y ago
    There's a difference between reading the news at work or chatting about nothing with coworkers for a half-hour a day and working part-time while passing it off as full-time. There are plenty of developers who work 7+ hours a work day, plus a little more at nights or on weekends during crunch times. I'm one of these people and every place I've worked has had these people. It's not like all of our work requires intense concentration - sometimes it's just typing or testing. Sure, there are people who put in very little "real work" by their own admission, and think they are doing just fine. But that's not a luxury afforded to the entire industry
    - welshwelsh 2y ago
      The average office worker is productive for less than 3 hours per day https://www.vouchercloud.com/better-living/office-worker-productivity https://www.vouchercloud.com/better-living/office-worker-pro... That's normal across all industries. If there are people who are actually productive for 7 hours per day, they are extreme outliers. I used to think that I worked 8-10 hours per day. That was until I measured my actual productivity. I worked as a translator once. When I timed myself, I found that I can translate about 2,000 words in 1 hour. But in a day, I struggle to do more than 5,000 words, no matter how hard I push myself- even though that's just 2.5 hours of work! And if I do 5,000 words every day, I burn out within a week.
      - yarekt 2y ago
        Exactly. I really like the empirical example. I find that solutions to work problems come to me at most random circumstances, shower, sleep, etc. Also a 15 minute break can unblock something that I’ stuck on for hours. I think it’s important to realise that there’s that limit to productivity, so don’t force it if it’s not working. take a break, come back tomorrow, you may find that you’re far more productive even though you’re spending less time “bums on seats”. Somewhat employer dependent
      - datadrivenangel 2y ago
        Machines have a concept of duty cycle! Welding machines are rated to a maximum percentage of time that you can run them before they overheat and shut off. This is helpful for thinking about the importance of rest.
  - itishappy 2y ago
    I consider thinky time to still be on-the-clock, but I don't think that's what the parent had in mind at all when they said "get away with doing part time hours" and "just do less."
  - 6510 2y ago
    In 1594 Philip the Prudent coined the 8 hour work day. It is quite hilarious that after all this time we still can't figure out how long a work day should be for different jobs. I do pretty grueling manual labor at night. The shift is 8, I think about 4 hours is reasonable (under 55), we do about 5. We have to carefully hide the other 3 hours. The shift starts with 20-40 min of planning and organizing which is maybe 4 minutes of work, we glue 10 min in front and behind the lunch break, we rest out of sight, we "finish" early. I often joke that a marathon is only 2 hours if you run really slowly. The culture is to expect us to do 5 marathons in 8 hours, every day! uhh.. i mean every night! Which is every bit as hilarious as it sounds. I calculate for the MBA types that if they cut the shifts in half and raise the pay by 50% people will be well over 25% more productive. Sleeping at night is not overrated. Both the pay raise and the reduced work day are of course culturally unthinkable. Their eyes just glaze over. I further joke that they don't have to understand. They can just join us and run these 25 marathons for a week. Only one week? When coding I prefer either ONE hour/day or 14 days straight 14 to 18 hours/day. That way everything fits in my head and I feel very productive. The endorphin milestones fly by. It's lovely. After that I don't want to see any code for two months. I don't want to even try to explain this to any employer. I probably wouldn't even want to understand it if I was hiring. Philip limited mine workers work days to seven hours! That was 430 years ago. </rant>
- solumunus 2y ago
  There’s nothing new about it. You won’t get away with it at FAANG, but look for old school enterprise software companies and it’s not hard to find roles where you can get away with putting in a few days per week.
  - 6510 2y ago
    In reality it is worth paying someone who does nothing but knows the answer when the machine stops.

oldpersonintx 2y ago

[dead]

tartoran 2y ago

If you can't find work but you're not pressed by finances have you considered teaching or starting up a community around what you have passion for? Or band up with other people of the same caliber and do something nobody can ignore.

xyst 2y ago

> I am in my mid-70s now It says something about society that asks people to work well beyond their retirement age. I hope you are only looking because it gives you purpose rather than doing it because it’s necessary (ie, medical bills, rent). If it’s the latter, very dystopian and on par for this neoliberal economic hellhole we live in. Personally, if I get to that age. I am cashing in my chips. No way I am working for soulless corporations, whether that’s part time or full time. I would much rather “retire” and work on my own open source projects or contribute to FOSS projects I like. Worst case scenario, I become a wood worker ;)

ipatch 2y ago
nothing wrong with carpentry
- mattbrewsbytes 2y ago
  Especially if you build a banana stand. I hear there’s always money in a banana stand.
srdesigner 2y ago
I am 61 and still working at a tech startup. I love startups. I do not have to work any more (not wealthy due to an exit, but I have enough with normal savings and investments to stop now.) In my line of work (not an engineer, but engineer adjacent, lol) it is unusual for someone my age to be employed- it's a young person's game. But I am fortunate because I have attributes that many lack, including extreme tolerance for ambiguity (at work, not at life.) I work because I like it. I like being around smart people doing smart things. But in a couple of years, I will stop working and just spend time lifting weights, practicing bjj and painting.
- darcwader 2y ago
  i am 40 and am worried about retirement. what sort of retirement planning did you do? how much do you think is a good plan. i love startups, i see similar aspiration to continue to work for startups till 60. i am not interested in creating any sort of generational weath or such as i am already doing what i would like to do, large sum of money won't change anything. but i am asking so i can be a bit peaceful to know some advise from my senior.

gcheong 2y ago

Someone of your caliber could probably get some fractional job gigs, for example: http://fractionaljobs.io/ http://fractionaljobs.io/

deleted 2y ago
[deleted]

john2095 2y ago

Mid-70's! Well done. What degradation in ability should I plan for? Any? I envisage myself coding for another 45 years (I'm in my 50s now), but I worry about my ability to concentrate on a single task for long spells, think creatively yet realistically enough to find solutions; to learn the latest fads and tools, and maintain my enthusiasm to keep up with the latest fads and tools. Will my hands get too unsteady to type, my eyes too weak to focus; how long will I be able to sit (or stand) up and work in a session. No-one knows I'm a dog, but they will if I have to turn on the camera or go to the office, so, will I necessarily be transitioned to more results-driven work assignments via tasking sites? (I guess these are the typical prejudices that a hiring team will make when considering an older candidate.) Prepare me. Share your wisdom. What challenges has aging presented to your ability to code?

gaws 2y ago
> What degradation in ability should I plan for? Any? Alzheimer's disease.