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Y Combinator Supports AI Startup Dehumanizing Factory Workers

151 points by thm 2y ago

yellow_lead 2y ago
If too many people comment on this, it will get removed from the front page again. I realize this is a bit hypocritical by commenting this.
- Mistletoe 2y ago
  Going to favorite it just so I can find it before it gets flagged. We have to redo the flagging system for HN, it's a complete joke. Why do they persist in the idea that it is better than simple upvotes and downvotes?
  - itishappy 2y ago
    None have been flagged. As I understand, if there's more comments than upvotes in a short period, it's automatically considered engagement bait and deranked. Edit: Per Dang, they have been flagged, but HN has opted to turn off flagging for YC companies. > It set off the flamewar detector. Moderators haven't touched it, except that we turned off the user flags on the story. Otherwise it would be displaying [flagged] at the top. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=43170850 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=43170850 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=43175023 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=43175023 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=43180133 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=43180133
  - scarab92 2y ago
    I flagged because I can’t stand this overly moralising cancel culture attitude. This exact tech is already commonplace in industry, but no one is trying to find an industry wide solution, just taking cheap pot shots that the nth startup doing the same thing. If you don’t like what this startup is doing, build something better instead of virtue signalling here.
    - nurettin 2y ago
      That statement makes no sense. Flagging is cancelling. You are what you can't stand.
      - b112 2y ago
        Bob is repeatedly punching Jon in the head, for invalid reasons. Pete, seeing this, runs up and belts Bob to protect Jon. Are these acts the same?
        nurettin 2y ago
        Pretty much, yes. I'm surprised you don't spot belting to be an equally violent action.
        b112 2y ago
        It is violent, but intent is everything. Blowing up a building because you're a mobster, and you're "sending a message", is different from a demolition crew doing the same to make way for a new building. You should really rethink what you're saying. An act is a wholesome, contextualize thing. It does not live in a vacuum. By your measure, a sexual predator grabbing a woman's vagina and a doctor examing a female patient are identical. This is a broken mental map of the world.
        nurettin 2y ago
        [flagged]
        dredmorbius 2y ago
        A surgeon and an assassin both wield a blade, and both occasionally kill. Their intent and motives differ strongly. Mens rea exists because reasons. (This is also why surgeons generally request a statement of consent to medical procedures from the patient, where that's tractable, or by a representative --- parent, guardian, someone granted power of attorney, etc --- where the patient themselves is incapable of consent. There are still some loose edges, but this itself is a significant though not sole distinction between the two roles noted.)
  - jrs235 2y ago
    Use hckrnews.com to find top stories that get flagged out removed.
    - abnercoimbre 2y ago
      This is my go-to alternative to read HN. The half-life for front page entries is also longer, which lets you catch up with more ease.
      - jrs235 2y ago
        I select 'All' so you see past history too.
    - benterix 2y ago
      I usually start my day by checking these first. Sometimes what happens is some actual spam flagged for genuine reasons but I'd say 70% of the time these are things that are interesting but there is a vocal group that doesn't like it (=the topic itsef, the conclusions of the article, etc.).
      - jrs235 2y ago
        Ditto.
bryant 2y ago
Previously discussed 1d ago: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=43166249 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=43166249
- re 2y ago
  Much more discussion in these posts, which AFAICT tend to quickly fall afoul of either user flagging or the HN flamewar detection and drop off the front page: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=43170850 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=43170850 Tell HN: Y Combinator backing AI company to abuse factory workers (476 points, 163 comments) https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=43175023 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=43175023 'Hey Number 17 ' (329 points, 125 comments) https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=43180133 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=43180133 Y Combinator deletes posts after a startup's demo goes viral (203 points, 73 comments)
MattGaiser 2y ago
I am surprised this is a new startup. Amazon has long been practicing micro Taylorism on every worker.
- spaceguillotine 2y ago
  it got so bad i got junk mail from amazon to resident today looking for warehouse workers
- tavavex 2y ago
  I think there are many companies that are trying to do something like this. But I'm pretty certain Amazon specifically didn't license their own technology to others.
bsnnkv 2y ago
I saw that the YC Twitter account has now scrubbed the announcement post, I was surprised to see very little discussion about it here until now
spaceguillotine 2y ago
This is the kind of AI that leads to turnover like Amazon that is so bad they are so desperate for warehouse staff they took to mass junk mailing people to try and find new hires because they fired all the eligible ones. serious late stage capitalism stuff right here and goes against the advice of successful business leaders that you have to instill trust and confidence in your team to get them to perform. Whoever made that AI should read Ricardo Semler and Paul Orfalea and stop drinking the tech bro get rich kool-aid and build a business that makes the world better, not worse.
yoyopa 2y ago
[dead]
itishappy 2y ago
This is particularly egregious, but I also suspect it's exactly how a large portion of the world currently operates. These founders explicitly stated that they grew up observing their parents factories. I doubt they learned such callous disregard for workers at Duke.
- fallingfrog 2y ago
  It’s a peek behind the curtain for sure.
- MattGaiser 2y ago
  It is, and ultimately largely with the same dehumanization but less precision. So instead of the worker being yelled at because of the AI, the worker will be yelled at because the boss imagines their pile to be smaller than the pile of another worker. It being common and unfixable is implicit in how this criticism is levelled. Tools that track efficiency should be a great thing. The criticism comes because everyone knows exactly how they will be cruelly used and that is treated as unfixable.
dang 2y ago
This is the same article as the following, with an altered headline: 'Hey Number 17 ' - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=43175023 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=43175023 - Feb 2025 (122 comments) Also recent and related: Tell HN: Y Combinator backing AI company to abuse factory workers - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=43170850 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=43170850 - Feb 2025 (160 comments)
uSoldering 2y ago
As someone with over a decade in industrial manufacturing, there is only ever the in-group of the masters, and the out-group of the serfs. Actually making things is merely the means to the end of neo-feudalism.
klipklop 2y ago
I bet it does not even work accurately. Dooming good workers while enriching themselves and investors. Near-peak Silicon Valley. Surprised they didn’t figure out how to do fraudulent medical tests as well for a side business.
Aveng1991 2y ago
The founders simply digitized existing practice into a piece of software. The demo could have been framed in a better way, but simply shifting the blame on the founders is very convenient. Factories loose contract over minor delays and issues. Often times the difference between workers enjoying a little humane working conditions is 20 cents, which big retail refuse to pay while the same goods retail for 4X- 5X margin. The problem isn’t the software, since most factories already employ similar process in other manual ways. Factories that adhere to efficiency survive, those who don’t simply die. Even 10% efficiency boost can mean a lot in industries with razor thin margins.
- happytoexplain 2y ago
  >The founders simply digitized existing practice into a piece of software. How could you say this without any sarcasm? This is merchant-of-death logic, you see? Nobody is shifting blame, they are expanding the blame.
OutOfHere 2y ago
What is the right response to a boss who accuses a worker of not meeting the boss' expected productivity criteria? Assume that both the boss and the worker believe that their productivity expectation and result are fair, respectively. It is obvious that they will never see eye to eye. In my opinion, it is for the worker to become more detached, not less, to treat the employment as temporary, to not invest one's expectations into lasting employment. All else is beside the point.
ZeroTalent 2y ago
I'm gonna plug in my latest rant on why it's not worth incubating at Y Combinator: https://8figures.substack.com/p/exposing-the-accelerator-why-y-combinator https://8figures.substack.com/p/exposing-the-accelerator-why...

151 points by thm 2y ago

If too many people comment on this, it will get removed from the front page again. I realize this is a bit hypocritical by commenting this.

Mistletoe 2y ago
Going to favorite it just so I can find it before it gets flagged. We have to redo the flagging system for HN, it's a complete joke. Why do they persist in the idea that it is better than simple upvotes and downvotes?
- itishappy 2y ago
  None have been flagged. As I understand, if there's more comments than upvotes in a short period, it's automatically considered engagement bait and deranked. Edit: Per Dang, they have been flagged, but HN has opted to turn off flagging for YC companies. > It set off the flamewar detector. Moderators haven't touched it, except that we turned off the user flags on the story. Otherwise it would be displaying [flagged] at the top. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=43170850 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=43170850 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=43175023 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=43175023 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=43180133 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=43180133
- scarab92 2y ago
  I flagged because I can’t stand this overly moralising cancel culture attitude. This exact tech is already commonplace in industry, but no one is trying to find an industry wide solution, just taking cheap pot shots that the nth startup doing the same thing. If you don’t like what this startup is doing, build something better instead of virtue signalling here.
  - nurettin 2y ago
    That statement makes no sense. Flagging is cancelling. You are what you can't stand.
    - b112 2y ago
      Bob is repeatedly punching Jon in the head, for invalid reasons. Pete, seeing this, runs up and belts Bob to protect Jon. Are these acts the same?
      - nurettin 2y ago
        Pretty much, yes. I'm surprised you don't spot belting to be an equally violent action.
        b112 2y ago
        It is violent, but intent is everything. Blowing up a building because you're a mobster, and you're "sending a message", is different from a demolition crew doing the same to make way for a new building. You should really rethink what you're saying. An act is a wholesome, contextualize thing. It does not live in a vacuum. By your measure, a sexual predator grabbing a woman's vagina and a doctor examing a female patient are identical. This is a broken mental map of the world.
        nurettin 2y ago
        [flagged]
        dredmorbius 2y ago
        A surgeon and an assassin both wield a blade, and both occasionally kill. Their intent and motives differ strongly. Mens rea exists because reasons. (This is also why surgeons generally request a statement of consent to medical procedures from the patient, where that's tractable, or by a representative --- parent, guardian, someone granted power of attorney, etc --- where the patient themselves is incapable of consent. There are still some loose edges, but this itself is a significant though not sole distinction between the two roles noted.)
- jrs235 2y ago
  Use hckrnews.com to find top stories that get flagged out removed.
  - abnercoimbre 2y ago
    This is my go-to alternative to read HN. The half-life for front page entries is also longer, which lets you catch up with more ease.
    - jrs235 2y ago
      I select 'All' so you see past history too.
  - benterix 2y ago
    I usually start my day by checking these first. Sometimes what happens is some actual spam flagged for genuine reasons but I'd say 70% of the time these are things that are interesting but there is a vocal group that doesn't like it (=the topic itsef, the conclusions of the article, etc.).
    - jrs235 2y ago
      Ditto.

bryant 2y ago

Previously discussed 1d ago: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=43166249 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=43166249

re 2y ago
Much more discussion in these posts, which AFAICT tend to quickly fall afoul of either user flagging or the HN flamewar detection and drop off the front page: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=43170850 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=43170850 Tell HN: Y Combinator backing AI company to abuse factory workers (476 points, 163 comments) https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=43175023 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=43175023 'Hey Number 17 ' (329 points, 125 comments) https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=43180133 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=43180133 Y Combinator deletes posts after a startup's demo goes viral (203 points, 73 comments)

MattGaiser 2y ago

I am surprised this is a new startup. Amazon has long been practicing micro Taylorism on every worker.

spaceguillotine 2y ago
it got so bad i got junk mail from amazon to resident today looking for warehouse workers
tavavex 2y ago
I think there are many companies that are trying to do something like this. But I'm pretty certain Amazon specifically didn't license their own technology to others.

bsnnkv 2y ago

I saw that the YC Twitter account has now scrubbed the announcement post, I was surprised to see very little discussion about it here until now

spaceguillotine 2y ago

This is the kind of AI that leads to turnover like Amazon that is so bad they are so desperate for warehouse staff they took to mass junk mailing people to try and find new hires because they fired all the eligible ones. serious late stage capitalism stuff right here and goes against the advice of successful business leaders that you have to instill trust and confidence in your team to get them to perform. Whoever made that AI should read Ricardo Semler and Paul Orfalea and stop drinking the tech bro get rich kool-aid and build a business that makes the world better, not worse.

yoyopa 2y ago

[dead]

itishappy 2y ago

This is particularly egregious, but I also suspect it's exactly how a large portion of the world currently operates. These founders explicitly stated that they grew up observing their parents factories. I doubt they learned such callous disregard for workers at Duke.

fallingfrog 2y ago
It’s a peek behind the curtain for sure.
MattGaiser 2y ago
It is, and ultimately largely with the same dehumanization but less precision. So instead of the worker being yelled at because of the AI, the worker will be yelled at because the boss imagines their pile to be smaller than the pile of another worker. It being common and unfixable is implicit in how this criticism is levelled. Tools that track efficiency should be a great thing. The criticism comes because everyone knows exactly how they will be cruelly used and that is treated as unfixable.

dang 2y ago

This is the same article as the following, with an altered headline: 'Hey Number 17 ' - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=43175023 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=43175023 - Feb 2025 (122 comments) Also recent and related: Tell HN: Y Combinator backing AI company to abuse factory workers - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=43170850 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=43170850 - Feb 2025 (160 comments)

uSoldering 2y ago

As someone with over a decade in industrial manufacturing, there is only ever the in-group of the masters, and the out-group of the serfs. Actually making things is merely the means to the end of neo-feudalism.

klipklop 2y ago

I bet it does not even work accurately. Dooming good workers while enriching themselves and investors. Near-peak Silicon Valley. Surprised they didn’t figure out how to do fraudulent medical tests as well for a side business.

Aveng1991 2y ago

The founders simply digitized existing practice into a piece of software. The demo could have been framed in a better way, but simply shifting the blame on the founders is very convenient. Factories loose contract over minor delays and issues. Often times the difference between workers enjoying a little humane working conditions is 20 cents, which big retail refuse to pay while the same goods retail for 4X- 5X margin. The problem isn’t the software, since most factories already employ similar process in other manual ways. Factories that adhere to efficiency survive, those who don’t simply die. Even 10% efficiency boost can mean a lot in industries with razor thin margins.

happytoexplain 2y ago
>The founders simply digitized existing practice into a piece of software. How could you say this without any sarcasm? This is merchant-of-death logic, you see? Nobody is shifting blame, they are expanding the blame.

OutOfHere 2y ago

What is the right response to a boss who accuses a worker of not meeting the boss' expected productivity criteria? Assume that both the boss and the worker believe that their productivity expectation and result are fair, respectively. It is obvious that they will never see eye to eye. In my opinion, it is for the worker to become more detached, not less, to treat the employment as temporary, to not invest one's expectations into lasting employment. All else is beside the point.

ZeroTalent 2y ago

I'm gonna plug in my latest rant on why it's not worth incubating at Y Combinator: https://8figures.substack.com/p/exposing-the-accelerator-why-y-combinator https://8figures.substack.com/p/exposing-the-accelerator-why...