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I find that most people don’t actually include the cost of solar fairly when making statements like this. Maximum solar that fit on my roof, no battery with 1

I find that most people don’t actually include the cost of solar fairly when making statements like this. Maximum solar that fit on my roof, no battery with 1 EV with maybe 2 hours of driving per weekday - $250 minimum electric bill plus the cost of the solar system ($250 over 10yrs) = $500-$600/month. I almost never use AC or heat.

deleted 2y ago
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s1artibartfast 2y ago
This isnt very helpful without your solar cost or electricity rate. Parts of California are at $0.50/kwh and going up. Electric cars are ~0.35 kwh/mi. A 60 mile both way commute is 21 kwh/day = 420kwh/month. a 21kwh/day system has a huge range in price depending on how much you are being gouged by your state and contractor. Panels themselves are dirt cheap.
- SlightlyLeftPad 2y ago
  Yes there are a lot of variables. That said, the point is, no one should be buying a Tesla specifically for cost savings. There are plenty of reasons to buy a Tesla and plenty of reasons not to.
  - s1artibartfast 2y ago
    Tesla or EVs in general? I think the numbers can work out for either, but depend largely on your solar install cost and rate.
    - SlightlyLeftPad 2y ago
      I think Teslas in particular are hard to justify purely financially. They’re not alone; Lucids, Rivians, some VWs fit in that category as well. Of course there are many other reasons to choose those cars but it’s not really to “save” money necessarily. They’re still cool cars with a lot to like. It just ends up being pretty close to a wash at the end of the day. With access to Tesla’s charging network, that makes literally all other cheaper EVs significantly more appealing for me. I love the convenience of EVs personally and don’t see myself switching back to gas regardless but hybrids lately have been looking more attractive given the price of electricity in CA lately. Having a full solar system already, there’s not a lot I can do to ease the pressure.
      - lotsofpulp 2y ago
        Which comparable EV is cheaper than Model 3 and Model Y? I bought a 3 row AWD Model Y for $49k (excluding tax credit), and I didn’t see any other EV that came close in terms of performance, battery, space, and track record relative to price. Throw in the $7,500 tax credit, and I would love to see an alternative with CarPlay at $42k that can seat 5 adults and 2 kids.
- numpad0 2y ago
  apparently a partial off-grid is a collective nightmare situation, as coal/nuke can't be turned off so opex remains constant, but the revenue goes down, so unit prices has to go up to make up for it. noisy electricity that is "sold back" to the grid is also hard to synchronize and basically wasted, and so that cost is further added into the bills.
  - s1artibartfast 2y ago
    I tend to agree. Rooftop solar is a collective disaster and doesn't make sense as anything greater than a niche solution. Commercial solar already struggles from seasonal variation requiring you to over build by 5X to get reliable power. Residential PRooftop takes it up a notch by costing 10x more than commercial. California Power policy is so backwards it makes my head spin. I can't believe they made rooftop solar a requirement for new houses when daytime spot prices are often negative. It's common for new houses to come with solar leases with negative savings. This is the type of thing the government should be preventing, not mandating
    - metalmangler 2y ago
      Rooftop solar is perfect. The lack of a full, east/west ultra high voltage transmission line to connect markets......like the one China is building out, is the issue. Once a grid is connecting time zones, rather than "regions" then the whole peak demand thing, just goes away, add batteries in the gaps, and for remaining peak clipping, and then averages start to become much closer to real world demand.
      - s1artibartfast 2y ago
        That doesn't solve the cost issue. Rooftop is at least 10X as expensive as plopping down panels on flat land, even before taking into account the efficiency of doing it in a desert vs rainy SF. Same for home battery storage. A Powerwall ~$1000/kwh, grid storage is $250/kwh and can actually stabilize the grid. Incentivizing it is a massive waste of public money. It is mandating citizens spend $1, when a commercial operation can do it for 10 cents.

deleted 2y ago

[deleted]

s1artibartfast 2y ago

This isnt very helpful without your solar cost or electricity rate. Parts of California are at $0.50/kwh and going up. Electric cars are ~0.35 kwh/mi. A 60 mile both way commute is 21 kwh/day = 420kwh/month. a 21kwh/day system has a huge range in price depending on how much you are being gouged by your state and contractor. Panels themselves are dirt cheap.

SlightlyLeftPad 2y ago
Yes there are a lot of variables. That said, the point is, no one should be buying a Tesla specifically for cost savings. There are plenty of reasons to buy a Tesla and plenty of reasons not to.
- s1artibartfast 2y ago
  Tesla or EVs in general? I think the numbers can work out for either, but depend largely on your solar install cost and rate.
  - SlightlyLeftPad 2y ago
    I think Teslas in particular are hard to justify purely financially. They’re not alone; Lucids, Rivians, some VWs fit in that category as well. Of course there are many other reasons to choose those cars but it’s not really to “save” money necessarily. They’re still cool cars with a lot to like. It just ends up being pretty close to a wash at the end of the day. With access to Tesla’s charging network, that makes literally all other cheaper EVs significantly more appealing for me. I love the convenience of EVs personally and don’t see myself switching back to gas regardless but hybrids lately have been looking more attractive given the price of electricity in CA lately. Having a full solar system already, there’s not a lot I can do to ease the pressure.
    - lotsofpulp 2y ago
      Which comparable EV is cheaper than Model 3 and Model Y? I bought a 3 row AWD Model Y for $49k (excluding tax credit), and I didn’t see any other EV that came close in terms of performance, battery, space, and track record relative to price. Throw in the $7,500 tax credit, and I would love to see an alternative with CarPlay at $42k that can seat 5 adults and 2 kids.
numpad0 2y ago
apparently a partial off-grid is a collective nightmare situation, as coal/nuke can't be turned off so opex remains constant, but the revenue goes down, so unit prices has to go up to make up for it. noisy electricity that is "sold back" to the grid is also hard to synchronize and basically wasted, and so that cost is further added into the bills.
- s1artibartfast 2y ago
  I tend to agree. Rooftop solar is a collective disaster and doesn't make sense as anything greater than a niche solution. Commercial solar already struggles from seasonal variation requiring you to over build by 5X to get reliable power. Residential PRooftop takes it up a notch by costing 10x more than commercial. California Power policy is so backwards it makes my head spin. I can't believe they made rooftop solar a requirement for new houses when daytime spot prices are often negative. It's common for new houses to come with solar leases with negative savings. This is the type of thing the government should be preventing, not mandating
  - metalmangler 2y ago
    Rooftop solar is perfect. The lack of a full, east/west ultra high voltage transmission line to connect markets......like the one China is building out, is the issue. Once a grid is connecting time zones, rather than "regions" then the whole peak demand thing, just goes away, add batteries in the gaps, and for remaining peak clipping, and then averages start to become much closer to real world demand.
    - s1artibartfast 2y ago
      That doesn't solve the cost issue. Rooftop is at least 10X as expensive as plopping down panels on flat land, even before taking into account the efficiency of doing it in a desert vs rainy SF. Same for home battery storage. A Powerwall ~$1000/kwh, grid storage is $250/kwh and can actually stabilize the grid. Incentivizing it is a massive waste of public money. It is mandating citizens spend $1, when a commercial operation can do it for 10 cents.