7 ms·

I never stopped developing. After getting laid off in April 2023 after 13 years as first a full stack then mobile dev, I just started working on things that int

I never stopped developing. After getting laid off in April 2023 after 13 years as first a full stack then mobile dev, I just started working on things that interested me. I did apply and interview a few times, but I started to realize that pushing 50 and being as cynical as I now am, I'm pretty much unemployable as an IC. So I released my application to the App Store this month, and while savings are dwindling, things are starting to finally move into the other direction now.

jamesrr39 2y ago
I have heard this a few times from different people/places, but why is it the case that at 50+ it is harder to find work? Assuming a regular retirement age, there are still many more years left in the career than a typical tech employment lasts.
- neofrommatrix 2y ago
  Bias
  - cschep 2y ago
    Could be bias, could also be that we just can't fake it anymore?
- bilbo-b-baggins 2y ago
  One reason is there’s literally many times fewer roles for someone with 20+ years of experience. And as time marches on, there’s more and more competition for those roles.
  - marssaxman 2y ago
    I wonder how that could be possible? There are proportionally so few of us old-timers around to begin with, given how much smaller the industry was and how rapidly it has grown over the last 20-30 years.
  - apwell23 2y ago
    i thought standard advice is to chop your resume to last 10 yrs
    - ElCapitanMarkla 2y ago
      I guess it depends on how many jobs you’ve had in the last 10 years. I’d only have 2 roles if I did that :)
- Fruitmaniac 2y ago
  On the one hand, I was declined by Google multiple times but ended getting a $10k settlement in a age discrimination class-action suit. On the other hand, I just got hired at 55 and it wasn't difficult.
- joshuamcginnis 2y ago
  I think landing (and keeping) a job in tech is challenging, whether you're a recent graduate or a seasoned professional with decades of experience. While the reasons for rejection may change with age, the key factors for getting hired remain the same: competency and collaboration. Demonstrating strong skills and being easy to work with will always be valuable—focus on these, and opportunities will follow. - a 40's something developer with 20+ years experience
- jongjong 2y ago
  Because most founders who made it in the field, did so at a young age and so they are biased to view old people who didn't "make it" and are still coding as incompetent even though it has nothing to do with reality. Reality is that being good in the tech side does not correlate that mich with being good on the business side. They are almost independent factors aside from some low baseline requirement of competence... The baseline requirement of technical competence for extreme financial success in tech is so low that most big tech companies don't even hire rank-and-file engineers whom don't meet that requirement half-way.
  - em-bee 2y ago
    the average age for successful founders is 40 years, and i believe that is first time founders. so i do not believe that founder bias against age is the issue.
  - torial 2y ago
    There was a YC CEO that in a podcast basically asserted that innovation was pretty much done by people less than 30 years of age. I had been gearing to apply to that company until I saw that comment.
- popularrecluse 2y ago
  I won't be rehired anywhere near what I was making if I do find something, that's fairly certain. So I've put the onus on myself to generate the income I'm looking for.
  - fifilura 2y ago
    What do you think about making your salary your top priority?
    - popularrecluse 2y ago
      I think at this point self-determination has eclipsed a great salary from someone else as a priority. Plus I'm fairly certain I can have it both ways.
- CoastalCoder 2y ago
  Speaking only for myself: - Minor health issues accumulate and become a distraction. Especially insomnia. - Having worked on many projects and technologies that went nowhere, my enthusiasm for the work is diminished, making me less focused. I decided to return to the last work that I found meaningful, which was as a software developer in the U.S. civil service. I think this was the right move, although Trump and Musk are doing their very best to make me question that.
- em-bee 2y ago
  in austria/germany the problem is that cultural expectation is that people get paid by seniority, and also based on their experience and qualifications, regardless of the actual requirements for the job. it is also assumed that no one wants to do work that is below their qualifications. that is, a 50 year old isn't even asked what their salary expectations are, it is simply assumed to be higher than what they want to pay, or rather, they can't bring themselves to pay someone like that less than they think is appropriate for their age. combine that with the perception that older people are less flexible and unwilling/unable to learn new stuff, and you end up with the belief that older people are expensive and useless or overqualified.
- menaerus 2y ago
  > but why is it the case that at 50+ it is harder to find work? I think this begins to be visible even sooner, 38 if you graduated at 23. The majority of the job market requires very very few 15+ years experienced engineers. 5 to 10 years of experience is a sweet spot - you will be easily hired. Everything below and beyond is a struggle, especially for the latter since very few companies need and are willing to pay for those skills. And that's how you become unemployable with the irony of being at more or less what would be the peak of your technical capabilities. In years later on, people start to lose the drive.
  - a_bonobo 2y ago
    I feel like I'm hitting this now. Just turned 39. I'm very good in my niche, but businesses just want 'answer to question'. I can provide 'answer to question while also making sure the answer-generating process is fully reproducible, data limitations are addressed and made visible, uncertainty has been calculated and is included in the answer'. Not every question needs that! Most people are willing to pay for Ikea furniture, not hand-crafted artisanal pieces. Ikea is good enough.
    - menaerus 2y ago
      I must say that I have never thought about that before but that's the reality of the tech market. Many people I talk to, who are outside the tech, can't comprehend this at all - they all assume the same - the more experience and knowledge you have, the more competitive and therefore highly sought out you become. Not true at all.
- nextn 2y ago
  Anyone up for starting a job site for 40+ devs only? How about an angel investing firm for 40+ founders only?
Fruitmaniac 2y ago
I dunno. I'm 56 and got hired last year as an Android dev. But then, I'm not very cynical.
- popularrecluse 2y ago
  Yeah I don't doubt there are roles out there if I really grind for one. I'm just happier now.
- drumdance 2y ago
  I'm 56. Please teach me your ways. I took a break from dev work from 2017 to 2023 and want to get back into it. I learned more recent stuff like React and have built a couple of open source projects and a mobile app using React Native, but I can't even get an interview.
beryilma 2y ago
> but I started to realize that pushing 50 and being as cynical as I now am, I'm pretty much unemployable as an IC. Well that's me. My theory is that it is not age that makes one unemployable in the software industry, but the unwillingness to put up with shit cooked up by bunch of 25 year old CEOs, CTOs, and the like.
- popularrecluse 2y ago
  At my last gig someone that my team unanimously rejected as unqualified showed up one day the following year as our new technical lead and boss. It went about how you'd expect. Much later I told my skip boss about the kind of feeling of disregard that may have fostered as he pushed me for insights. And he remarked that it sounded like I had a chip on my shoulder. All I could come up with was 'guess I was born with it.' Yeah cynical. And much happier working on my own things that are meaningful and interesting.
  - hahahalegend 2y ago
    [flagged]
  - aqueueaqueue 2y ago
    The culture spoke to them and they didn't listen. How foolish.
  - cutemonster 2y ago
    > Much later I wonder if the new technical lead and boss still work there, at that much later time?
- cmrdporcupine 2y ago
  I'm the same age, and I'm pretty sure the industry has substantially changed, not just me. EDIT: and by changed, I don't mean improved. I was a huge advocate of agile and eXtreme Programming early in my career, and I even worked in shops where it seemed to be really having good results. Now I see everyone using SCRUM and... it's garbage and I want to gouge my eyes out in the meetings. I see a lot of talking but not a lot of code getting written. And where the code gets written, it's always a pile of ego-boosting needless complexity.
fm2606 2y ago
I switched into software dev full time at 50 and took a new software job at 52. I'll be 55 y/o this year and I highly doubt I will switch jobs again, I like the org and the work. Prior to that, starting at 45 y/o I was a part time dev and full time firefighter-paramedic (14 years total). Covid scared me to becoming a FT dev.
- selimthegrim 2y ago
  Did you ever see any way you could use your dev skills to help the other job?
  - fm2606 2y ago
    I did actually. I created a custom dashboard with basic stats of type of calls ran, how many calls were run by each station, how many were EMS and how many were fire calls. Then I started doing some more automation stuff. Nothing super interesting and mostly bespoke stats gathering.
    - selimthegrim 2y ago
      Well, if you’re ever still interested in the intersection of the two, give me a buzz - my email is my HN handle at Gmail. I might have something for you.
      - fm2606 2y ago
        Email sent
- nyarlathotep_ 2y ago
  Curious how you made that pivot? Did you have an "in" somewhere? What's your background (whatever you mind sharing).
  - fm2606 2y ago
    I have a BS degree in Aerospace Engineering and from 1999 - 2006 I was job jumping quite a bit because I was miserable. All the jobs were boring. I took a EMT Basic night class because my wife and I were getting into scuba diving and I wanted to be a dive master on boats during the weekend. I enjoyed EMT so much that I signed up for Paramedic class, not knowing what I was going to do with it, just did it. It was relatively cheap at the time and we were kid free at that time as well when I started. School was 15 months long. As we were about ready to graduate PM school the county fire dept (FD) came in and said they would hire paramedics but you had to cross train to be a fire fighter as well. I was 36 y/o, we just had our 1st kid and I figured if I didn't do it then I'd never would and probably regret it so I got hired as a PM and then FD trained me for FF. This was 2006, hence the username FM2606 for fire-medic Feb 6, 2006 my hire date. It didn't take long to see a bunch of firefighter's getting hurt, specifically back issues due to working and mainly from lifting stretchers with patients on them. I also have a chronic health issues and I figured if either or both of these issues became a problem and I couldn't work as a FF/PM we'd be screwed, so I decided to do an online master's degree in comp sci. Comp sci being my initial major out of highschool before I dropped out. Fast foward to 2015, I finished my master's, had 2 kids and started working part time as a dev. Fast forward again to 2020, I was about to turn 50 y/o, Covid hit and I was taken out of the field due to my health issues. I started applying for full time dev jobs. Landed one and then two years later switched to a bigger org. No regrets on any of it. Becoming a FF/PM was one of the best career decisions of my life. I loved it (for the most part) but it was time to go. I didn't have an "in". I think persistence paid off and plus I feel like I interview pretty good. Feel free to ask me anything else.
zero_shift 2y ago
What's your app?
denysvitali 2y ago
Link to your app?
nobodyandproud 2y ago
This is a good time to link something encouraging: https://www.wsj.com/business/entrepreneurship/the-investor-betting-on-people-in-their-50s-and-60sbecause-older-is-better-f19fd19b?st=PriQ8R&reflink=mobilewebshare_permalink https://www.wsj.com/business/entrepreneurship/the-investor-b... Most successful businesses and ventures tend to be at our age, and even someone like myself have experienced why.
tenpoundhammer 2y ago
How can I find your app?

jamesrr39 2y ago

I have heard this a few times from different people/places, but why is it the case that at 50+ it is harder to find work? Assuming a regular retirement age, there are still many more years left in the career than a typical tech employment lasts.

neofrommatrix 2y ago
Bias
- cschep 2y ago
  Could be bias, could also be that we just can't fake it anymore?
bilbo-b-baggins 2y ago
One reason is there’s literally many times fewer roles for someone with 20+ years of experience. And as time marches on, there’s more and more competition for those roles.
- marssaxman 2y ago
  I wonder how that could be possible? There are proportionally so few of us old-timers around to begin with, given how much smaller the industry was and how rapidly it has grown over the last 20-30 years.
- apwell23 2y ago
  i thought standard advice is to chop your resume to last 10 yrs
  - ElCapitanMarkla 2y ago
    I guess it depends on how many jobs you’ve had in the last 10 years. I’d only have 2 roles if I did that :)
Fruitmaniac 2y ago
On the one hand, I was declined by Google multiple times but ended getting a $10k settlement in a age discrimination class-action suit. On the other hand, I just got hired at 55 and it wasn't difficult.
joshuamcginnis 2y ago
I think landing (and keeping) a job in tech is challenging, whether you're a recent graduate or a seasoned professional with decades of experience. While the reasons for rejection may change with age, the key factors for getting hired remain the same: competency and collaboration. Demonstrating strong skills and being easy to work with will always be valuable—focus on these, and opportunities will follow. - a 40's something developer with 20+ years experience
jongjong 2y ago
Because most founders who made it in the field, did so at a young age and so they are biased to view old people who didn't "make it" and are still coding as incompetent even though it has nothing to do with reality. Reality is that being good in the tech side does not correlate that mich with being good on the business side. They are almost independent factors aside from some low baseline requirement of competence... The baseline requirement of technical competence for extreme financial success in tech is so low that most big tech companies don't even hire rank-and-file engineers whom don't meet that requirement half-way.
- em-bee 2y ago
  the average age for successful founders is 40 years, and i believe that is first time founders. so i do not believe that founder bias against age is the issue.
- torial 2y ago
  There was a YC CEO that in a podcast basically asserted that innovation was pretty much done by people less than 30 years of age. I had been gearing to apply to that company until I saw that comment.
popularrecluse 2y ago
I won't be rehired anywhere near what I was making if I do find something, that's fairly certain. So I've put the onus on myself to generate the income I'm looking for.
- fifilura 2y ago
  What do you think about making your salary your top priority?
  - popularrecluse 2y ago
    I think at this point self-determination has eclipsed a great salary from someone else as a priority. Plus I'm fairly certain I can have it both ways.
CoastalCoder 2y ago
Speaking only for myself: - Minor health issues accumulate and become a distraction. Especially insomnia. - Having worked on many projects and technologies that went nowhere, my enthusiasm for the work is diminished, making me less focused. I decided to return to the last work that I found meaningful, which was as a software developer in the U.S. civil service. I think this was the right move, although Trump and Musk are doing their very best to make me question that.
em-bee 2y ago
in austria/germany the problem is that cultural expectation is that people get paid by seniority, and also based on their experience and qualifications, regardless of the actual requirements for the job. it is also assumed that no one wants to do work that is below their qualifications. that is, a 50 year old isn't even asked what their salary expectations are, it is simply assumed to be higher than what they want to pay, or rather, they can't bring themselves to pay someone like that less than they think is appropriate for their age. combine that with the perception that older people are less flexible and unwilling/unable to learn new stuff, and you end up with the belief that older people are expensive and useless or overqualified.
menaerus 2y ago
> but why is it the case that at 50+ it is harder to find work? I think this begins to be visible even sooner, 38 if you graduated at 23. The majority of the job market requires very very few 15+ years experienced engineers. 5 to 10 years of experience is a sweet spot - you will be easily hired. Everything below and beyond is a struggle, especially for the latter since very few companies need and are willing to pay for those skills. And that's how you become unemployable with the irony of being at more or less what would be the peak of your technical capabilities. In years later on, people start to lose the drive.
- a_bonobo 2y ago
  I feel like I'm hitting this now. Just turned 39. I'm very good in my niche, but businesses just want 'answer to question'. I can provide 'answer to question while also making sure the answer-generating process is fully reproducible, data limitations are addressed and made visible, uncertainty has been calculated and is included in the answer'. Not every question needs that! Most people are willing to pay for Ikea furniture, not hand-crafted artisanal pieces. Ikea is good enough.
  - menaerus 2y ago
    I must say that I have never thought about that before but that's the reality of the tech market. Many people I talk to, who are outside the tech, can't comprehend this at all - they all assume the same - the more experience and knowledge you have, the more competitive and therefore highly sought out you become. Not true at all.
nextn 2y ago
Anyone up for starting a job site for 40+ devs only? How about an angel investing firm for 40+ founders only?

Fruitmaniac 2y ago

I dunno. I'm 56 and got hired last year as an Android dev. But then, I'm not very cynical.

popularrecluse 2y ago
Yeah I don't doubt there are roles out there if I really grind for one. I'm just happier now.
drumdance 2y ago
I'm 56. Please teach me your ways. I took a break from dev work from 2017 to 2023 and want to get back into it. I learned more recent stuff like React and have built a couple of open source projects and a mobile app using React Native, but I can't even get an interview.

beryilma 2y ago

> but I started to realize that pushing 50 and being as cynical as I now am, I'm pretty much unemployable as an IC. Well that's me. My theory is that it is not age that makes one unemployable in the software industry, but the unwillingness to put up with shit cooked up by bunch of 25 year old CEOs, CTOs, and the like.

popularrecluse 2y ago
At my last gig someone that my team unanimously rejected as unqualified showed up one day the following year as our new technical lead and boss. It went about how you'd expect. Much later I told my skip boss about the kind of feeling of disregard that may have fostered as he pushed me for insights. And he remarked that it sounded like I had a chip on my shoulder. All I could come up with was 'guess I was born with it.' Yeah cynical. And much happier working on my own things that are meaningful and interesting.
- hahahalegend 2y ago
  [flagged]
- aqueueaqueue 2y ago
  The culture spoke to them and they didn't listen. How foolish.
- cutemonster 2y ago
  > Much later I wonder if the new technical lead and boss still work there, at that much later time?
cmrdporcupine 2y ago
I'm the same age, and I'm pretty sure the industry has substantially changed, not just me. EDIT: and by changed, I don't mean improved. I was a huge advocate of agile and eXtreme Programming early in my career, and I even worked in shops where it seemed to be really having good results. Now I see everyone using SCRUM and... it's garbage and I want to gouge my eyes out in the meetings. I see a lot of talking but not a lot of code getting written. And where the code gets written, it's always a pile of ego-boosting needless complexity.

fm2606 2y ago

I switched into software dev full time at 50 and took a new software job at 52. I'll be 55 y/o this year and I highly doubt I will switch jobs again, I like the org and the work. Prior to that, starting at 45 y/o I was a part time dev and full time firefighter-paramedic (14 years total). Covid scared me to becoming a FT dev.

selimthegrim 2y ago
Did you ever see any way you could use your dev skills to help the other job?
- fm2606 2y ago
  I did actually. I created a custom dashboard with basic stats of type of calls ran, how many calls were run by each station, how many were EMS and how many were fire calls. Then I started doing some more automation stuff. Nothing super interesting and mostly bespoke stats gathering.
  - selimthegrim 2y ago
    Well, if you’re ever still interested in the intersection of the two, give me a buzz - my email is my HN handle at Gmail. I might have something for you.
    - fm2606 2y ago
      Email sent
nyarlathotep_ 2y ago
Curious how you made that pivot? Did you have an "in" somewhere? What's your background (whatever you mind sharing).
- fm2606 2y ago
  I have a BS degree in Aerospace Engineering and from 1999 - 2006 I was job jumping quite a bit because I was miserable. All the jobs were boring. I took a EMT Basic night class because my wife and I were getting into scuba diving and I wanted to be a dive master on boats during the weekend. I enjoyed EMT so much that I signed up for Paramedic class, not knowing what I was going to do with it, just did it. It was relatively cheap at the time and we were kid free at that time as well when I started. School was 15 months long. As we were about ready to graduate PM school the county fire dept (FD) came in and said they would hire paramedics but you had to cross train to be a fire fighter as well. I was 36 y/o, we just had our 1st kid and I figured if I didn't do it then I'd never would and probably regret it so I got hired as a PM and then FD trained me for FF. This was 2006, hence the username FM2606 for fire-medic Feb 6, 2006 my hire date. It didn't take long to see a bunch of firefighter's getting hurt, specifically back issues due to working and mainly from lifting stretchers with patients on them. I also have a chronic health issues and I figured if either or both of these issues became a problem and I couldn't work as a FF/PM we'd be screwed, so I decided to do an online master's degree in comp sci. Comp sci being my initial major out of highschool before I dropped out. Fast foward to 2015, I finished my master's, had 2 kids and started working part time as a dev. Fast forward again to 2020, I was about to turn 50 y/o, Covid hit and I was taken out of the field due to my health issues. I started applying for full time dev jobs. Landed one and then two years later switched to a bigger org. No regrets on any of it. Becoming a FF/PM was one of the best career decisions of my life. I loved it (for the most part) but it was time to go. I didn't have an "in". I think persistence paid off and plus I feel like I interview pretty good. Feel free to ask me anything else.

zero_shift 2y ago

What's your app?

denysvitali 2y ago

Link to your app?

nobodyandproud 2y ago

This is a good time to link something encouraging: https://www.wsj.com/business/entrepreneurship/the-investor-betting-on-people-in-their-50s-and-60sbecause-older-is-better-f19fd19b?st=PriQ8R&reflink=mobilewebshare_permalink https://www.wsj.com/business/entrepreneurship/the-investor-b... Most successful businesses and ventures tend to be at our age, and even someone like myself have experienced why.

tenpoundhammer 2y ago

How can I find your app?