4 ms·

What are the compliance costs for this law that would apply to a small independent forum?

by _fjg8 2y ago

TylerE 2y ago
Have you run a forum, in, say, the last decade? The amount of spam bots constantly posting links to everything from scams to pints to guns is immense - and no, captchas don’t solve it.
rjbwork 2y ago
You can just read any of the writing by the people operating these fora that are closing.
- aimazon 2y ago
  I have read every post, every article, every piece of guidance. I’m asking for specifics, not hand waving. What are the actual compliance costs?
  - MassiveQuasar 2y ago
    > I have read every post, every article, every piece of guidance. Prove it. I’m asking for specifics, not hand waving.
    - _fjg8 2y ago
      https://www.ofcom.org.uk/online-safety/illegal-and-harmful-content/helping-small-services-navigate-the-online-safety-act/ https://www.ofcom.org.uk/online-safety/illegal-and-harmful-c... Last month. “ We’ve heard concerns from some smaller services that the new rules will be too burdensome for them. Some of them believe they don’t have the resources to dedicate to assessing risk on their platforms, and to making sure they have measures in place to help them comply with the rules. As a result, some smaller services feel they might need to shut down completely. So, we wanted to reassure those smaller services that this is unlikely to be the case“ “If organisations have carried out a suitable and sufficient risk assessment and determined, with good reason, that the risks they face are low, they will only be expected to have basic but important measures to remove illegal content when they become aware of it. These include: easy-to-find, understandable terms and conditions; a complaints tool that allows users to report illegal or harmful material when they see it, backed up by a process to deal with those complaints; the ability to review content and take it down quickly if they have reason to believe it is illegal; and a specific individual responsible for compliance, who we can contact if we need to.” Your turn. Where are these compliance costs?
      - rjbwork 2y ago
        It's right there in your post. >they will only be expected to have basic but important measures to remove illegal content when they become aware of it. These include: >easy-to-find, understandable terms and conditions; a complaints tool that allows users to report illegal or harmful material when they see it, backed up by a process to deal with those complaints; the ability to review content and take it down quickly if they have reason to believe it is illegal; and a specific individual responsible for compliance, who we can contact if we need to.”
        aimazon 2y ago
        All of those things are buttons to click and ship with every piece of forum software from the last decade. No forum can survive without moderation because of spam so these tools and policies will already be in place on every website with user generated content.
        choo-t 2y ago
        Some forum use custom backend, and updating them for an asinine law may not be the maintainer priority. Having someone dedicated to contact with this authority is also a burden on hobbyist projects.
        deleted 2y ago
        [deleted]
      - x0x0 2y ago
        "We pinky swear to totes not enforce the law as written [unless and until we decide, with no notice or warning, to do so] up to and including criminal penalties". Not as reassuring as you claim it to be.
        aimazon 2y ago
        We don’t need to trust what they say, we just need to engage in a little critical thinking. What’s the benefit for Ofcom in pursuing tiny websites? There’s no political benefit, no financial benefit… the guidance from Ofcom reaffirms the natural conclusion.
michaelt 2y ago
Many of the provisions of the act apply to all user-to-user services, not just Schedule 1 and Schedule 2 services. For example, the site must have an "illegal content risk assessment" and a "children’s risk assessment". And the children's risk assessment is a four-dimensional matrix of age groups, types on content, ways of using the service and types of harm. And it's got to be updated before making any "significant" change to any aspect of a service’s design or operation. It also makes it mandatory to have terms of service, and to apply them consistently. The site must have a content reporting procedure, a complaints procedure, and maintain written records. Now obviously the operator of a bicycling forum might say "eh, let's ignore all that, they probably don't mean us" But if you read the law and interpret its words literally, a bicycling forum is a user-to-user service, and a public forum is almost certain to be read by children from time to time.

What are the compliance costs for this law that would apply to a small independent forum?

by _fjg8 2y ago

What are the compliance costs for this law that would apply to a small independent forum?

Have you run a forum, in, say, the last decade? The amount of spam bots constantly posting links to everything from scams to pints to guns is immense - and no, captchas don’t solve it.

rjbwork 2y ago

You can just read any of the writing by the people operating these fora that are closing.

aimazon 2y ago
I have read every post, every article, every piece of guidance. I’m asking for specifics, not hand waving. What are the actual compliance costs?
- MassiveQuasar 2y ago
  > I have read every post, every article, every piece of guidance. Prove it. I’m asking for specifics, not hand waving.
  - _fjg8 2y ago
    https://www.ofcom.org.uk/online-safety/illegal-and-harmful-content/helping-small-services-navigate-the-online-safety-act/ https://www.ofcom.org.uk/online-safety/illegal-and-harmful-c... Last month. “ We’ve heard concerns from some smaller services that the new rules will be too burdensome for them. Some of them believe they don’t have the resources to dedicate to assessing risk on their platforms, and to making sure they have measures in place to help them comply with the rules. As a result, some smaller services feel they might need to shut down completely. So, we wanted to reassure those smaller services that this is unlikely to be the case“ “If organisations have carried out a suitable and sufficient risk assessment and determined, with good reason, that the risks they face are low, they will only be expected to have basic but important measures to remove illegal content when they become aware of it. These include: easy-to-find, understandable terms and conditions; a complaints tool that allows users to report illegal or harmful material when they see it, backed up by a process to deal with those complaints; the ability to review content and take it down quickly if they have reason to believe it is illegal; and a specific individual responsible for compliance, who we can contact if we need to.” Your turn. Where are these compliance costs?
    - rjbwork 2y ago
      It's right there in your post. >they will only be expected to have basic but important measures to remove illegal content when they become aware of it. These include: >easy-to-find, understandable terms and conditions; a complaints tool that allows users to report illegal or harmful material when they see it, backed up by a process to deal with those complaints; the ability to review content and take it down quickly if they have reason to believe it is illegal; and a specific individual responsible for compliance, who we can contact if we need to.”
      - aimazon 2y ago
        All of those things are buttons to click and ship with every piece of forum software from the last decade. No forum can survive without moderation because of spam so these tools and policies will already be in place on every website with user generated content.
        choo-t 2y ago
        Some forum use custom backend, and updating them for an asinine law may not be the maintainer priority. Having someone dedicated to contact with this authority is also a burden on hobbyist projects.
        deleted 2y ago
        [deleted]
    - x0x0 2y ago
      "We pinky swear to totes not enforce the law as written [unless and until we decide, with no notice or warning, to do so] up to and including criminal penalties". Not as reassuring as you claim it to be.
      - aimazon 2y ago
        We don’t need to trust what they say, we just need to engage in a little critical thinking. What’s the benefit for Ofcom in pursuing tiny websites? There’s no political benefit, no financial benefit… the guidance from Ofcom reaffirms the natural conclusion.

michaelt 2y ago

Many of the provisions of the act apply to all user-to-user services, not just Schedule 1 and Schedule 2 services. For example, the site must have an "illegal content risk assessment" and a "children’s risk assessment". And the children's risk assessment is a four-dimensional matrix of age groups, types on content, ways of using the service and types of harm. And it's got to be updated before making any "significant" change to any aspect of a service’s design or operation. It also makes it mandatory to have terms of service, and to apply them consistently. The site must have a content reporting procedure, a complaints procedure, and maintain written records. Now obviously the operator of a bicycling forum might say "eh, let's ignore all that, they probably don't mean us" But if you read the law and interpret its words literally, a bicycling forum is a user-to-user service, and a public forum is almost certain to be read by children from time to time.