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Is integrated/non-upgradeable RAM the unavoidable future for all consumer-grade devices? Is there any sort of standard on the horizon that would enable the mass

by kibwen 2y ago

Is integrated/non-upgradeable RAM the unavoidable future for all consumer-grade devices? Is there any sort of standard on the horizon that would enable the massive memory bandwidth to compete against the M1-style approach?

skyyler 2y ago
LPCAMM2 memory is the answer, isn't it? It's just not catching on, because of course it isn't. Manufacturers have no incentive to let you upgrade parts on your own.
- Manabu-eo 2y ago
  Framework entire brand is to let you upgrade parts on your own, and they said CAMM was technically impossible because signal integrity.
  - skyyler 2y ago
    That sounds like an excuse.
    - aseipp 2y ago
      You've never been able to upgrade RAM on GPUs for the exact same reasons that Framework is alluding to. That's what's happening here; GPUs have lots of cores, and to keep them feed you need lots of bandwidth to go along with it. All dedicated GPUs come with dedicated memory for this exact reason. Things like traditional "iGPUs" that use DDR can get away with it exactly because they are so small and computationally weak that the limited bandwidth isn't the immediate #1 bottleneck. But Strix Halo is not intended to be a measly iGPU system, so it has different needs. There just isn't a free lunch here, it's an inherent design tradeoff for these kinds of chips. The CPU is just along for the ride, in this case.
deleted 2y ago
[deleted]
aseipp 2y ago
Well, you haven't ever been able to upgrade RAM on your GPUs, so the real question is more like: will more consumer-grade devices move towards unified memory designs with single memory pool? My completely-bullshit opinion is something like "I think it's attractive for a lot of mid-range or lower end SKUs, so you'll see it more frequently." It's attractive because you save a lot of power and components with this kind of design. It would be interesting to see this kind of design (APU) in a socket-able factor too, but who knows. It's also attractive for a certain class of high-end design too (like Grace Hopper), but I think you're going to see RAM sticks for a while yet in the mid-to-very-high-range. This is completely bullshit because it is based more on vibes and basic technical design points than any kind of market forecasting or anything like that.

by kibwen 2y ago

skyyler 2y ago

LPCAMM2 memory is the answer, isn't it? It's just not catching on, because of course it isn't. Manufacturers have no incentive to let you upgrade parts on your own.

Manabu-eo 2y ago
Framework entire brand is to let you upgrade parts on your own, and they said CAMM was technically impossible because signal integrity.
- skyyler 2y ago
  That sounds like an excuse.
  - aseipp 2y ago
    You've never been able to upgrade RAM on GPUs for the exact same reasons that Framework is alluding to. That's what's happening here; GPUs have lots of cores, and to keep them feed you need lots of bandwidth to go along with it. All dedicated GPUs come with dedicated memory for this exact reason. Things like traditional "iGPUs" that use DDR can get away with it exactly because they are so small and computationally weak that the limited bandwidth isn't the immediate #1 bottleneck. But Strix Halo is not intended to be a measly iGPU system, so it has different needs. There just isn't a free lunch here, it's an inherent design tradeoff for these kinds of chips. The CPU is just along for the ride, in this case.

deleted 2y ago

[deleted]

aseipp 2y ago

Well, you haven't ever been able to upgrade RAM on your GPUs, so the real question is more like: will more consumer-grade devices move towards unified memory designs with single memory pool? My completely-bullshit opinion is something like "I think it's attractive for a lot of mid-range or lower end SKUs, so you'll see it more frequently." It's attractive because you save a lot of power and components with this kind of design. It would be interesting to see this kind of design (APU) in a socket-able factor too, but who knows. It's also attractive for a certain class of high-end design too (like Grace Hopper), but I think you're going to see RAM sticks for a while yet in the mid-to-very-high-range. This is completely bullshit because it is based more on vibes and basic technical design points than any kind of market forecasting or anything like that.