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If the Excel spreadsheet has formulas in it, it's software. If you're just talking about the data in the sheet, i.e. what you'd get exporting it as a CSV, then

If the Excel spreadsheet has formulas in it, it's software. If you're just talking about the data in the sheet, i.e. what you'd get exporting it as a CSV, then it's not. Col types, unique/FK/PK constraints, default values, and computed cols define the steps for handling row inserts/updates/deletes. Even adding a uniqueness constraint to an already-unique col will change how the code interacts with it, specifically how it deals with concurrency/locking. If they said it has to be an imperative programming language, then it's not that. If they said the schema isn't source code then ok, but I still think it is.

tptacek 2y ago
I assure you that Excel spreadsheets with formulas in them are FOIA-able in Illinois. Since we can take that as axiomatic, I think we can put "schemas are software" to bed.
- hot_gril 2y ago
  SQL schemas aren't Excel spreadsheets.
  - tptacek 2y ago
    That's fascinating, but you just claimed Excel spreadsheets were "software" in the sense of the Illinois FOIA statute definition, and they are not. QED.
    - hot_gril 2y ago
      You said that SQL schemas aren't software, and that's what this lawsuit was about. If they explicitly say that Excel docs (even w/ formulas) aren't software, I think they're wrong, but that doesn't matter because Excel docs aren't SQL schema. Now if you want to go by Illinois definitions, SQL schemas are file layouts, that's why the plaintiff lost.
      - tptacek 2y ago
        Again: the post explains why the court determined schemas to be file layouts, and none of it involves any of the logic you've supplied here. Even Chicago didn't try to claim that a schema was a "software".
        hot_gril 2y ago
        They didn't need to. In the first appeal, it didn't matter because it didn't jeopardize security. In the second appeal, they said it's a file layout. You also said SQL schemas are declarative, not imperative. Those are types of programming languages, so software.

tptacek 2y ago

I assure you that Excel spreadsheets with formulas in them are FOIA-able in Illinois. Since we can take that as axiomatic, I think we can put "schemas are software" to bed.

hot_gril 2y ago
SQL schemas aren't Excel spreadsheets.
- tptacek 2y ago
  That's fascinating, but you just claimed Excel spreadsheets were "software" in the sense of the Illinois FOIA statute definition, and they are not. QED.
  - hot_gril 2y ago
    You said that SQL schemas aren't software, and that's what this lawsuit was about. If they explicitly say that Excel docs (even w/ formulas) aren't software, I think they're wrong, but that doesn't matter because Excel docs aren't SQL schema. Now if you want to go by Illinois definitions, SQL schemas are file layouts, that's why the plaintiff lost.
    - tptacek 2y ago
      Again: the post explains why the court determined schemas to be file layouts, and none of it involves any of the logic you've supplied here. Even Chicago didn't try to claim that a schema was a "software".
      - hot_gril 2y ago
        They didn't need to. In the first appeal, it didn't matter because it didn't jeopardize security. In the second appeal, they said it's a file layout. You also said SQL schemas are declarative, not imperative. Those are types of programming languages, so software.